Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) Information

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

If you want to report a JavaScript error, please follow this guideline. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. Discussions are automatically archived after remaining inactive for five days.


Collapse template test

Does this look right to y'all?

*{{Collapse top/sandbox|title=does this work okay?|width=80%}}
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
*{{Collapse bottom/sandbox}}

See Template talk:Collapse top#Change wikitext table to HTML table. — Alexis Jazz ( talk or ping me) 04:31, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

A bullet that goes right before a table doesn't look right to me, but other than that it does work. NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 04:41, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, indeed it doesn't look super nice, but due to WP:COLAS one might have to. With the current version of {{ Collapse top}} people either use it with asterisk indentation (resulting in massive breakage) or insert it without indentation in the middle of a discussion which causes various other problems. Alexis Jazz ( talk or ping me) 06:12, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I don't know what changed, but the above test was hiding all the remaining content on this page so I've wrapped it a nowiki tag. If you want to share further tests that hide content, perhaps we should link to a separate page that exemplifies usage to avoid this situation. MusikAnimal talk 16:46, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks, we're getting to the bottom of this at Template_talk:Collapse_top#Change_wikitext_table_to_HTML_table. — xaosflux Talk 16:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
MusikAnimal, sorry, I forgot I had transcluded the sandbox here. When Xaosflux suggested an extra line break for collapse bottom I tested that in the sandbox (to test with the non-sandbox collapse top), but that broke the collapse top+bottom sandbox combo. Alexis Jazz ( talk or ping me) 17:01, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The |} markup to end a table only works if it is at the very start of the line. Hence it's not surprising that it breaks if placed after an asterisk, just as it would if placed after a colon. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 22:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
In general, this seems like GIGO to me, tables don't really belong inside lists, regardless of how they are invoked. — xaosflux Talk 00:21, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Xaosflux, the reality is that people want to collapse stuff within comments on discussion pages, and discussions are lists because history. Saying "no, bad user. bad!" doesn't make that go away. I wonder why it's even a table, maybe a version using divs could be made. Alexis Jazz ( talk or ping me) 07:41, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Why does this text overflow the page boundary?

Screen shot showing close box text overflow.png

On Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Request for comment on administrator activity requirements, the text in the close box flows off the right side of the page. I'm assuming there's a missing HTML close tag or something like that, but I can't find it. Anybody? -- RoySmith (talk) 16:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@Slywriter who did the close. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:37, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Slywriter trying the ping again. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:38, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ RoySmith works for me, are you still seeing this? — xaosflux Talk 17:32, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
RoySmith, I can't replicate on mobile, mobile desktop nor desktop. Looked through the wikitext and don't see any stray close tags. Slywriter ( talk) 17:34, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Yup. I get it on Chrome Version 103.0.5060.134 (Official Build) (x86_64) and Safari Version 15.5 (17613.2.7.1.8), but not on Firefox 95.0.2 (64-bit) or 103.0.1 (64-bit). macOS Monterrey 12.4 (21F79) for all of those. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:44, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Hmmm, doesn't happen on Chrome in an incognito window. I guess the next thing I should try is turning off various gadgets one by one. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:48, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ RoySmith try this safemode link. Then before you go trying gadgets, try toggling off some of these. — xaosflux Talk 17:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Yup, enabling safemode makes the problem go away. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:57, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The problem turns out to be Preferences / Gadgets / Appearance / "Change UTC-based times and dates, such as those used in signatures, to be relative to local time". Toggling that makes the text overflow problem appear and disappear deterministically. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:17, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Oh, I think I see what's going on. With that gadget installed, you end up with
<span ... style="... white-space: nowrap;">11:09 am, 13 April 2022, Wednesday (3 months, 21 days ago) (UTC−4)</span>
and the "nowrap" style is forcing the text to not wrap, even though it's too wide for the box. @ Curbon7 I'm guessing you've got that same gadget enabled? -- RoySmith (talk) 18:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ RoySmith thanks for the note, that gadget is supported soley by User:Gary, you can ask for help on his talk page. — xaosflux Talk 18:49, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Let's pick this up at Wikipedia talk:Comments in Local Time. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:51, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
This has been an issue for me too. I don't really care enough to figure out how to fix it, as it isn't really major, but just noting it's been happening to me too. Curbon7 ( talk) 17:54, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Same note as above, and noting that you are loading ~35 different personal user scripts. — xaosflux Talk 17:57, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I recently changed Module:Side box to use divs with flex instead of a table (more semantic HTML). When an element is nowrap inside a table, the table will expand to fit the nowrap. This behavior is particular to tables. Most other elements will instead cause the inner content to overflow. The fix is fundamentally: don't use nowrap in your signatures unless you are marking something very short up as nowrap. If you must use nowrap, use <wbr> to indicate where a browser may wrap your content, see MDN documentation. Certainly, do not put a full timestamp inside a nowrap style. Izno ( talk) 22:55, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I've fixed the problem in the script, so it shouldn't expand thin boxes anymore. Gary ( talk ·  scripts) 20:59, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Autocomplete Search Results For "Ireland" Do Not List "Republic Of Ireland" Article

First a little background. Ireland is an ambiguous term on Wikipedia, as it can (among other uses) refer to both the island of Ireland and the country of Ireland (which shares the island with Northern Ireland). To disambiguate between the two, consensus was reached that the island article be located at Ireland, the country at Republic Of Ireland and reference to each defined by WP:IRE-IRL.

However when a user searches for the word "Ireland" using any of the in-page search boxes (across desktop and mobile), the article for "Republic Of Ireland" is not included in the auto completed search results. It's a common use case for a user to search for a country by its name, "Ireland", however they are not able to easily find the article using search unless they use the terms "Republic Of Ireland" or "Ireland (country)" (a redirect page) which may be unintuitive to the user. This behaviour is inconsistent with the order returned on the non-autocomplete search page, as "Republic Of Ireland" appears as the 2nd result.

I am a relatively new editor so am only learning policies, markup, templates etc and don't know how to resolve this issue. Is there anything that can be done to make the article discoverable to users using autocomplete? Would adding something like {{ Infobox country}} to the redirect page provide it with enough semantic data to appear at the top list of autocomplete search results? Or is there another talk page that might be able to help? Cashew.wheel ( talk) 16:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Ireland (country) is only one of 12 redirects [1] to Republic of Ireland which starts with "Ireland". I don't know whether one of them would get higher priority in autocompletion if some of the others were deleted but I don't think we should delete redirects for this reason. I don't like making changes based on search engine speculation whether it's internal or external searches. Ireland (the island) has a hatnote directly to the republic without going via a disambiguation page. That seems sufficient to me. PrimeHunter ( talk) 17:31, 3 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ PrimeHunter Thanks for your feedback. Looks like it's going to remain as is indefinitely. Cashew.wheel ( talk) 17:39, 7 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Some weird things going on with my edit history and logs

I created a redirect page called "Big Lake Township" so it redirects to "Big Lake Township, Sherburne County, Minnesota", as there's no other Big Lake Township. After that someone moved the main article to the name of the redirect page I created because it is the only Big Lake Township that exists, so it doesn't need to be disambiguated in the name (although all Minnesota townships have the county in their name despite some being the only townships of that name). The weird thing is that I can't see the creation of the redirect page on my edit history at all [2]. Also when I go to the information page of the redirect page I made (after the move it is the one with the disambiguation in name) the page says that the creator of the page is the user that moved the redirect page?? That's weird since when I go to my page creation log it says that I created the page. Weird. edit: Sorry if this is not the right place to write this, I haven't used the English Wikipedia too much Minilammas ( talk) 21:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I think this is due to this "move over redirect", which technically deletes the destination page (at that time, your redirect) and then moves the source page to it, "overwriting" the page entirely as it were. This is described in more detail at Wikipedia:Moving a page#Moving over a redirectTheresNoTime ( talk • she/her) 21:39, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Hello, and thanks for writing! Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have about 5,500 edits on Finnish Wikipedia (my home wiki) and I've never noticed this during my time on Wikipedia, even though I've moved pages and deleted pages by moving (and actually noted that a deletion actually happens, but I couldn't figure out that might have been the reason) many times on my home wiki. It's probably because this was the first time someone moved a redirect page I made. Interesting. Thank you for clearing this up! Minilammas ( talk) 22:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
As an administrator I can confirm that the creation is in your deleted edits (actually your only deleted edit). PrimeHunter ( talk) 23:02, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks. After writing that I realized that it actually has happened before on my home wiki – but this was the first time I actually went to my edit history to search for a page that was deleted in a move. Minilammas ( talk) 23:08, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Before August 2016, redirect edits made in a situation like this would just completely disappear. Graham 87 08:39, 7 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

"You successfully pinged someone" notifications

In Special:Preferences, it's possible to opt in to getting notifications whenever you ping someone else (as opposed to the more common situation of being notified whenever someone else pings you). I've had these enabled for a while, as a) I'm trying to get used to the notification system after a period of inactivity and b) my previous signature had been known to confuse software on occasion, so I find it helpful to have a way to know whether something that I intended as a ping attempt was actually interpreted as one.

My question is: for people who have opted into this, why are these "red notifications" (like being pinged by another, or having your user talk page edited) rather than "blue notifications" (like being thanked, or a page you created being patrolled)? Unlike a failed attempt to notify someone (which IIRC is a red notification for everyone, because you need to know that your attempt to contact someone didn't work), there's nothing particularly urgent or important about being told that your ping was successful, so I'd expect this to have been lumped in with the less important notifications. -- ais523 22:37, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

MGChecker asked the same with no answer at phab:T139623#3263174. PrimeHunter ( talk) 22:58, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I've logged T314695 and submitted a patchTheresNoTime ( talk • she/her) 23:33, 5 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
It was probably not answered because the task had been closed nine months earlier. Unlike some other bug-logging software that I have used, phabricator doesn't reopen a closed task when additional comments are posted. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 17:21, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Also, pinging someone in an edit summary works fine, but no "successful ping" notification is generated for these pings.  MANdARAX XAЯAbИAM  16:22, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This has been the case ever since the mention-in-edit-summary feature was added in March 2018. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 17:07, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Datasets of revisions

Is there any person or service that generates datasets of EN Wikipedia revision metadata in CSV or other standard format, for example as a file containing all extant edits from a particular month? Looking for something that would include at least page ID, user ID (if applicable), namespace, timestamp, revision size, and SHA1 hash. (I'm working on this myself as a way of creating an audit trail for some stats I'm generating, but I wonder if I might be duplicating someone else's work.) -- Visviva ( talk) 01:01, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I doubt that exactly exists, but we do provide database dumps if you were not aware. Izno ( talk) 05:40, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Yes, there is. It is at dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20220801/ under revision metadata. Look for the last meta-current file under that heading, the 602.7 MB one (it is compressed, the actual size is 9x that). You will have to check if the file goes far enough back in time. You could also use the last file marked as articles, if you are only looking for article info. The data is in an XML file, each field in a tag. Mapping: page ID id, user ID contributor - ID, namespace ns, timestamp timestamp, revision size text bytes, and SHA1 hash sha1. Snævar ( talk) 05:41, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks! I've been working from the stub-meta-history file (comes out to about half a T unpacked). But since I am but a rando, I want to make sure that I'm deriving my data as transparently as possible. I had been going directly from the dump to user-page-month edit count files like these, but then it occurred to me that (a) although the files are easy to spot-check against page histories and user contributions, there are a number of ways for errors to potentially slip in that might not be obvious from the source code, and (b) although user-page-months are a surprisingly versatile unit, there are some metrics I'm interested in (like edit size and reversion time) that require going back to the revision metadata anyway. So I was thinking about generating intermediary CSV files of revision data by month, which would make things easier for me and any hypothetical fact-checker as well. But then it occurred to me that perhaps someone else had done that already, in which case it would make more sense to just work from that existing data. But I guess maybe nobody has. -- Visviva ( talk) 21:28, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The only way to know for sure is to ask/check the researches, which are on meta under the research namespace. There defiantly are others that have taken the revision metadata and made it into an CSV. From what I see, researchers tend to prune the data so it suits their research, so their CSV may not be helpful. Snævar ( talk) 05:05, 7 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Start new section button, in editor's talkpage

Has the "+" (start a new section) button been disabled on user talkpages? Mine no longer works. GoodDay ( talk) 02:49, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

 Works for me @ GoodDay: what happens when you push it? Which skin are you using? It it not working on all pages (like this one), only a specific page, or only user talk pages for you? — xaosflux Talk 09:45, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
If "Enable quick topic adding" is enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing then try to disable it. PrimeHunter ( talk) 11:16, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Now, it doesn't seem to work on any talkpages. GoodDay ( talk) 14:44, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Red alert: The new topic edit feature is not working in Wikipedia talk, Template talk, Help talk, and MediaWiki talk namespaces. For example, on page Wikipedia talk:Administrators, mouse over the new section "+" and the link is https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia_talk:Administrators&action=edit&section=new; but that page is simply the talk page itself, not the new section page. Mouse over Click here to start a new topic. and the link is https://webot.org/info/en/?search=Special:NewSection/Wikipedia_talk:Administrators, but that page is again simply the talk page itself. On page Template talk:AfD in 3 steps, mouse over the new section "+" and the link is https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Template_talk:AfD_in_3_steps&action=edit&section=new; but that page is simply the talk page itself, not the new section page. Article talk, User talk, File talk, and Category talk pages all allow adding new sections in the normal manner. I use Windows 10, Firefox, and the MonoBook skin. — Anomalocaris ( talk) 04:35, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Is it possible that this is a similar problem to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 198#New section tab not working when JavaScript is disabled? The new "quick topic adding" is a JavaScript-only feature, but when JavaScript is disabled, it should redirect you to the old form. However, it is possible for some browser extensions to prevent this redirection, which would cause the behavior you describe. Matma Rex talk 18:15, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Works for me still? I was able to add new topic, with the new topic tool enabled and also with it disabled. — xaosflux Talk 18:29, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
It works for me. The mentioned mouse over url's are the same when it works. The only url difference is that when it works, clicking the link doesn't change the url from the page you are already on, but just adds a form. For example, if you click the new section link on https://webot.org/info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:Administrators then you are still on https://webot.org/info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:Administrators, but at the bottom in a form. PrimeHunter ( talk) 18:37, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I just got a new computer today. The problem is still there. However, it goes away if I go to Preferences and on the Editing tab, uncheck Enable quick topic adding and save. I have not intentionally disabled Javascript in Firefox. If I disabled Javascript in Wikipedia, how would I have done that? — Anomalocaris ( talk) 05:12, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Enable quick topic adding again. Does it work if you log out? Does it work in safemode? The tab will say "New section". PrimeHunter ( talk) 09:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Are you running script-blocking extensions, such as NoScript? — xaosflux Talk 10:14, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
No, as I say, I just got a new Windows 11 computer and installed Firefox on it, with no extensions so far. If I log out, my preferences won't be in effect. If I enable quick topic adding, safemode does not solve the problem. — Anomalocaris ( talk) 18:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Quick topic adding is enabled for logged out users. Does it work if you log out? PrimeHunter ( talk) 19:30, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Oh no, I think I see what's happening – if you have "Enable quick topic adding" enabled, but "Enable quick replying disabled", and the page would have any reply links, all of the tools don't work correctly. This is filed as T314707, I didn't immediately connect the dots that it's the same issue. Matma Rex talk 20:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ GoodDay @ Anomalocaris This should be fixed now (you might need to purge the cache of affected pages first), can you try? Sorry about the issue. Matma Rex talk 14:17, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Yup, it's kickin' in, now. But not for some editors' talkpages. But, it'll gradually smooth out :) GoodDay ( talk) 15:14, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Is AB Hypothesis testing possible on unref ?

In Trial a different Idea Labs process we are discussing whether problem solving appproaches might work better, than people suggesting solutions. Our first problem, could be "Does the current unref templates encourage new editors and referencing" In 2009 , unref mass updated and we were thinkng of testing it vs say 2020. But after we worked out what happened in the past, it would be good to test different unrefs and see whether blank, or various versions work better in getting refs on say stubs. Is this possible without having lots of different templates> Wakelamp d[@-@]b ( talk) 15:33, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This is a minor technicality regarding a narrow aspect of a serious problem. It is possible that given sufficient time small samples can be collected that are meaningful to analysis of various formulations of {{ unref}}. Any formulation decided this way will still be a minor modification of the status quo. The root issue is that only properly referenced input should be allowed in mainspace. Encyclopedias are about facts, not about expanding internet "properties" with more dubious articles and ever-increasing bureaucracy and rulesets. I propose. as one iteration of {{ unref}}, this page will be deleted in 7 days if no verifiable references are added. It would be interesting to see the result of that. 68.132.154.35 ( talk) 16:04, 6 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you for your reply. I think we actually may be in agreement, .and if you are need a lot more people interested, before even this small test should go ahead.
The aim is to test problem solving by going through all the steps on a project page. So, what small problems do we try to solve.. A good candidate seems to be "Does {{Unref} achieve its goals?" . We might be able to prove that it doesn't based on past data (which we will need help with), But we need to know that A/B testing is possible without editing the article. .
To reply to your comments, one by one
  1. "Only properly referenced input should be allowed in main space" This is just a small test, and deleting a million articles might be noticed. :-)
  2. "This is a minor technicality" I don't think so, Templates are a combination of a critique/worklist/community recruitment/community advertising, and in the Headline position, I don't think we have never tested whether they work.
  3. "A narrow aspect" Deliberately.
  4. "A serious problem": You solve Serious problems by splitting them up, and fixing them in bite size chunks, Over and Over again, .
  5. "Given sufficient time small samples" These articles have a low number of readers, so ,we may need to investigate 10 K to 100 K over 12 months.
  6. "ever-increasing bureaucracy and rulesets" I see this as a symptom of other problems, but that is a larger problem for the community..
  7. Requested Test - "if you take no action in 7 days".- Sounds a good test, as long as we don't actually delete the article
Wakelamp d[@-@]b ( talk) 12:49, 7 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Search under vector-2022

One of my most common actions is to find a policy or guideline via WP: shortcut. Therefore I use the search box for this. Having recently upgraded to vector-2022, I've also adopted the Alt+⇧ Shift+F shortcut to search. I'm using Chrome 103 on Windows 10 Pro. If I happen to search while the mouse pointer is near the search box, ↵ Enter has the undesirable effect of activating the search suggestion which is indicated by the mouse pointer, rather than sending my query as-is to the search engine. This is an accessibility no-no. I pressed ↵ Enter to activate my keyboard input, not what's under the caret. If I need to move the mouse to avoid this situation, it defeats the purpose of keyboard entry.

Example: Alt+⇧ Shift+F MOS:GENDERID ↵ Enter took me to WP:MOS and WP:MOSBIO, successively, until I moved the mouse away from underneath the search box. Elizium23 ( talk) 02:04, 7 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ Elizium23:: mw:Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements. -- Malyacko ( talk) 13:52, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

"Start a discussion about"

Resolved
 – The label was updated. — xaosflux Talk 13:00, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I think it would be a good idea if empty Talk pages said, "Start a discussion about improving the article [[XXX]]" instead of "Start a discussion about XXX". Maybe, just maybe, we would get fewer contributions like this: [3] -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 05:56, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Village pumps can get quite technical, with complex plumbing and Seconded. I've removed quite a few new irrelevant talk sections recently. Minor refinement: "Start a discussion about improving the XXX page" would cover talk pages of non-articles (redirects and dabs) too, or we could detect those and customise the text. Certes ( talk) 08:51, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Honestly I don't know if anything will prevent contributions like that, however, the proposal makes sense so I've boldly gone ahead and changed it: Special:Diff/1103109248. -- zzuuzz (talk) 10:31, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Can you be a bit more specific, exactly what steps are you using to get to this message? Here is an example talk page: User_talk:Xaosflux/sandbox129, it says "Start a discussion about improving the User:Xaosflux/sandbox129 page". Here is one that exist, but doesn't have content User talk:Xaosflux/sandbox130, it says " start a discussion with others about how to improve the "User:Xaosflux/sandbox130" page." — xaosflux Talk 10:54, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Please see the response above, I've already changed it. You can see for yourself from the diff the title it used to use at Talk:Duende and elsewhere. Regarding the different versions, there is a check for whether the page exists (in the title at anyway). MediaWiki:Discussiontools-emptystate-desc might want some tweaking to match that check, or maybe not. -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:03, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Hob Gadling: can we call this resolved now? — xaosflux Talk 17:01, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Wonderful, thank you! -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 19:47, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Censor blocks from Special:BlockList?

Is it possible to censor blocks such that they can't even be found in Special:BlockList? 213.149.103.132 ( talk) 11:05, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I believe oversighters can suppress a blocked account from appearing there (see Wikipedia:Oversight#Actions). Neither global locks nor global locks show up there unless you search for them (compare Special:GlobalBlockList). -- zzuuzz (talk) 11:33, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The oversight option 'Suppress username from edits and lists.', if used, would suppress a username from that and other lists. We only use that if the username itself contains suppressible information. — xaosflux Talk 17:05, 8 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Tech News: 2022-32

19:48, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Preview warnings

On Vincent van Gogh, I keep getting a preview warning about how {{ Infobox artist}} is using an unknown parameter |1=, which apparently refers to |education=, which is a fully valid parameter. I'm using Safari 15.6 on Mac OS 12.5. Esszet ( talk) 00:59, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

There were missing brackets in a wikilink. MB 01:05, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I don't understand, everything has to be linked? Esszet ( talk) 03:13, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Esszet, unclosed links break templates e.g. {{foo|[[bar}} ―  Qwerfjkl talk 11:54, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Esszet: That wasn't the issue here. It said:
| education = [[Royal Academy of Fine Arts (Antwerp)|Royal Academy of Fine Arts]], [[Willem II College]], Academy of Fine Arts (Brussels)|[[Royal Academy of Fine Arts]], and [[Anton Mauve]]
The pipe in Academy of Fine Arts (Brussels)| wasn't inside a link so it ended the education parameter and started an unnamed parameter. The first unnamed parameter is called 1 and the infobox doesn't accept unnamed parameters. The warning said unknown parameter "1 = [[Royal Academy of Fine A...". It showed the start of the unnamed parameter but truncated it at a time where it was still identical to the start of the education parameter. That's bad luck and I can understand your confusion. PrimeHunter ( talk) 13:42, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Yes, it's the third pipe in the line. What that pipe does is split the one line into two parameters, as if the following had been entered:
| education        = [[Royal Academy of Fine Arts (Antwerp)|Royal Academy of Fine Arts]], [[Willem II College]], Academy of Fine Arts (Brussels)
|[[Royal Academy of Fine Arts]], and [[Anton Mauve]]
The pipe concerned seems to have originated in this edit at 20:18, 1 April 2022 (UTC) by Filmssssssssssss ( talk · contribs). -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 14:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I see, thank you both. Esszet ( talk) 01:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Template:Infobox motorcycle rider

Could someone please take a look after a series of changes mostly up to June 2022 made by a relatively inexperienced editor @ KHaylock:? I see a stray curly bracket, eg at Beryl Swain and Carolynn Sells infoboxes (different fields), and the red error messages on the template page itself. Some info at template Talk. No urgency. Thanks.-- Rocknrollmancer ( talk) 19:41, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I have removed three extra }. [5] PrimeHunter ( talk) 22:25, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
ThanQ, PrimeHunter.-- Rocknrollmancer ( talk) 23:03, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

How can a template calculate the diff between year-and-month dates?

I'd like a citation template to calculate how old a publication is, because if it's > 3yrs, doi-access should be set to 'free'. Publication is quarterly, and the publisher's dates in their DB are YYYY/MM, so it would be nice if the notice for free access turned on the month. But I can't just subtract the date param from a truncated CURRENTTIMESTAMP, because neither is decimal. I assume this has been done before, just don't know where to look. — kwami ( talk) 23:37, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

You could probably do the calculation using Julian days. Or, something like the following usage of {{ time interval}} might help. show=d gives a number of days and disp=raw gives just the number. You could use show=y for years but I would need a fair bit of time to experiment or recall how it rounds.
  • {{time interval|1 Jan 2001|March 4, 2002|disp=raw|show=d}} → 427
Johnuniq ( talk) 00:00, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks! I think I can take it from there. If I get stuck I'll ping you. — kwami ( talk) 01:13, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

That works! If I plug in 2019-08, it displays as free access; if 2019-09, it doesn't. — kwami ( talk) 01:27, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ Kwamikagami: I had a look at Template:Cite JIPA. The date/age modules are complex and not fully documented and I have forgotten exactly what partial=on does as far as date differences go, so I'll just mention that using partial=on makes {{ time interval}} accept incomplete dates such as "2001" or "March 2001". In a quick test, I couldn't make sense of the resulting number and I can't take the time at the moment to dive in deeper. Ask me in a couple of weeks if you want that investigated (I should do it!). However, what I am confident about is that omitting a date means the current date is used. For example, these give the same result and this may be of use:
  • {{time interval|2020-8-10|{{date}}|disp=raw|show=d}} → 732
  • {{time interval|2020-8-10||disp=raw|show=d}} → 732
Johnuniq ( talk) 07:32, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks! That simplifies things quite a bit. I'll play around with it tomorrow. — kwami ( talk) 08:12, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
That allowed me to cut a fair amount of clutter in the code and end up being more forgiving of date formats. Enough that I could reduce the documentation. — kwami ( talk) 09:23, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Logging in to OTRS

I was trying to read an OTRS ticket, but found myself unable to log in to do so. I followed this link and was asked for my username + password, but was told the password was wrong when I supplied it. So I said I'd lost it (not true, but there didn't seem to be anything else to do) and was told I'd been sent password reset instructions by e-mail. No e-mail arrived. Help? I suppose it's possible that I created a separate password for the OTRS thing years ago and failed to make a note of it and failed to both save it in my Firefox privacy thing and to link an e-mail to it (though I don't think so), but what can I do now? I'm really scared to test my Wikipedia password by logging out and then back in, but sooner or later of course I will simply be logged out - you know it happens. Will I at that time ever be able to get back in to my Wikipedia account? And what's wrong with "Wikimedia vrt" that it won't let me log in to read the ticket? Bishonen | tålk 08:30, 11 August 2022 (UTC). Reply[ reply]

@ Bishonen, you could try logging in, in an incognito window, so that it won't log you out. ―  Qwerfjkl talk 10:54, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Sorry, what? How do I get an incognito window without first logging out (which I'm now scared to do)? Please make all explanations in "for dummies" mode. Bishonen | tålk 11:03, 11 August 2022 (UTC). Reply[ reply]
@ Bishonen: Follow the instructions here or press control-shift-p on Windows/Linux or command-shift-P on a Mac. Graham 87 11:40, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Right. I have now tried that, but got exactly the same result. Bishonen | tålk 11:56, 11 August 2022 (UTC). Reply[ reply]
@ Bishonen Are you a VRT agent? If not then you can't access Wikimedia vrt. Nthep ( talk) 12:27, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I'm not. But I used to be able to read OTRS tickets all the same. Did I use the wrong kind of link? Another admin sent it to me because they wanted my opinion on the unblock request. Bishonen | tålk 13:25, 11 August 2022 (UTC). Reply[ reply]
@ Bishonen I don't see you on the otrswiki:List of accounts (or the List of accounts/closed list). Note, vrt-wiki, and ticket.wikimedia.org don't use your WMF SUL logon, but a different account. If you have a different username there, we can look for it; otherwise this seems to be working as expected? Perhaps you are thinking about the Wikipedia:Unblock Ticket Request System tickets where unblock requests normally go, that uses SUL logon. — xaosflux Talk 13:32, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Oh. Yes, maybe I was thinking of UTRS. I think I'll just decide it wasn't really important to look at the request. Thanks, everybody, for your help. Bishonen | tålk 15:07, 11 August 2022 (UTC). Reply[ reply]

Содержание

Strange one I've seen a few times already. In the Special:NewPagesFeed display of the first lines of an article, I get things like

"The men's tandem sprint B at the 2022 Commonwealth Games is part of the cycling programme, and took place on 31 July 2022. Содержание 1 Records 2 Schedule " (emphasis mine). This text is not visible in the article [6]. The meaning is "content". It isn't restricted to one editor either, I e.g. also see it at Swimming at the 2022 European Aquatics Championships – Men's 400 metre individual medley. But it does seem to be restricted to sports articles? An inobox issue or somethinhg else? Fram ( talk) 09:22, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Strange, it's like it's picking up the Russian translation of MediaWiki:Toc for some reason. But that message hasn't changed at all recently so far as I can tell. the wub "?!" 10:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Yes, the text appears in place of "Contents" in the standard ToC header. it's as if Special:NewPagesFeed is suddenly running in a Russian-language "context" (in a vague, non-technical sense). It's Thursday, but there is no new MediaWiki version this week. Certes ( talk) 10:23, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
It appears that Special:NewPagesFeed picks up the language of the editor who created the page. For example, for Swimming at the 2022 European Aquatics Championships – Women's 200 metre backstroke at Special:NewPagesFeed I see The Women's 200 metre backstroke competition of the 2022 European Aquatics Championships will be held on 11 and 12 August 2022.ScheduleStart list Содержание 1 Records 2 Results 2.1 Heats 2.2 Semifinals 2.3 Final 3 References Records Prior the... (emphasis mine). The page was created by Almagestas, whose userboxes suggest that his English Wikipedia interface might be in Russian. —⁠ andrybak ( talk) 13:21, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Similar situation with Cycling at the 2022 Commonwealth Games – Women's tandem 1 km time trial B by WildCherry06. Quote from feed: The women's tandem 1 km time trial B at the 2022 Commonwealth Games, was part of the cycling programme, which took place on 31 July 2022. This event was for blind and visually impaired cyclists riding with a sighted pilot. Содержание 1 Record.... —⁠ andrybak ( talk) 13:26, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Special:NewPagesFeed changes quickly here and all reported examples were with Russian so I made a test with Danish at testwiki:NewPagesFeed language test. testwiki:Special:NewPagesFeed shows the Danish "Indholdsfortegnelse" instead of "Contents". PrimeHunter ( talk) 16:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The language at Special:NewPagesFeed appears to not be determined by the page creator but the most recent editor. I created the page with Danish as language and it displayed in Danish. I made an edit with English as language and it displayed in English. I made another edit with Danish as language and it now displays in Danish again. PrimeHunter ( talk) 16:23, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Sounds like a WP:BUG to report over at phab. — xaosflux Talk 16:26, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Category appears to be empty?

Is there a reason Category:Brooks & Dunn songs has a warning at the top saying "this category appears to be empty" when it's clearly not? I tried a null edit and nothing fixed it. Anyone know what might be causing this? Ten Pound Hammer( What did I screw up now?) 18:34, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ TenPoundHammer: It's caused by Template:Songs category. How to fix that, I don't know. DuncanHill ( talk) 18:42, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Because *{{PAGESINCATEGORY:{{PAGENAME}}}} there is currently outputting 0, in error. — xaosflux Talk 18:43, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Because {{PAGENAME}} is producing Brooks &#38; Dunn songs rather than Brooks & Dunn songs * Pppery * it has begun... 18:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Possible bug on pages with "&" in the title — xaosflux Talk 18:49, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I updated Template:Songs category/core with the workaround suggested on mw:Help:Magic_words - better now? 18:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC) — xaosflux Talk 18:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
( edit conflict) According to the wayback machine, the "empty" warning has been present since at least 2016. The behavior of {{PAGENAME}} encoding certain special characters has been documented on MediaWiki.org since at least 2011 (originally added at mw:Help:Magic words, later moved to mw:Manual:PAGENAMEE encoding). Looks like a misfeature rather than a bug. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Seems to be phab:T37746. — xaosflux Talk 18:54, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Full width of page

Hi, in browsing in Vector 2022 mode when I click hide contents on the left, I want the article to span the whole width of the page but it leaves an empty gap. I don't see the point in it. Why can't I shrink the left side and broaden out the page? That seems the best option from shrinking the contents.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:26, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Limiting the display width is deemed to be the best way. See Limiting content width There are several (many?) user scripts to fix this width issue, but yes, it really would be better if full width was just a standard Skin preference. — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 23:07, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
We have a gadget, but it still isn't getting that space back. I left a note in phab:T307901; if anyone has a clue (and hopefully not a lengthy javascript hack) input would be welcome. Here is a random article, in vector-2022, with the "wide" gadget on: < https://webot.org/info/en/?search=2010_Kilkenny_Senior_Hurling_Championship?useskin=vector-2022&withgadget=wide-vector-2022>. Notice, that even with both the sidebar and TOC collapse, that space is still wasted over there. That space does helpfully get deleted at widths under 1000px as a hint. — xaosflux Talk 23:26, 11 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Issue with striking text

Just now I attempted to strike out an RfA vote and associated discussion here. Even though I added the correct <s>...</s> tags it managed to strike out everything after the opening tag. I managed to get around it with this, but something still seems off. Was it something I did (wouldn't surprise me), or is there some kind of glitch? (Side note: if there's a way of collapsing it without whacking out the vote tally I'd like to know it) The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 00:02, 12 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

# and : (and * and ;) start html elements that end at the end of the line they're on. Each <s> tag within one has to end in a matching </s> tag on the same line. If you really mean to strike the blocked user's comments and all replies - and I don't think that's justified - you have to put a separate <s>...</s> on each line. — Cryptic 00:27, 12 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, I'm fine with just striking the individual vote, I'll go do that now. But good to know for the future. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 00:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]