Wikipedia:Featured article candidates Information

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This star, with one point broken, indicates that an article is a candidate on this page.

Here, we determine which articles are to be featured articles (FAs). FAs exemplify Wikipedia's very best work and satisfy the FA criteria. All editors are welcome to review nominations; please see the review FAQ.

Before nominating an article, nominators may wish to receive feedback by listing it at Peer review and adding the review to the FAC peer review sidebar. Editors considering their first nomination, and any subsequent nomination before their first FA promotion, are strongly advised to seek the involvement of a mentor, to assist in the preparation and processing of the nomination. Nominators must be sufficiently familiar with the subject matter and sources to deal with objections during the featured article candidates (FAC) process. Nominators who are not significant contributors to the article should consult regular editors of the article before nominating it. Nominators are expected to respond positively to constructive criticism and to make efforts to address objections promptly. An article should not be on Featured article candidates and Peer review or Good article nominations at the same time.

The FAC coordinators— Ian Rose, Gog the Mild, Buidhe and Hog Farm—determine the timing of the process for each nomination. For a nomination to be promoted to FA status, consensus must be reached that it meets the criteria. Consensus is built among reviewers and nominators; the coordinators determine whether there is consensus. A nomination will be removed from the list and archived if, in the judgment of the coordinators:

  • actionable objections have not been resolved;
  • consensus for promotion has not been reached;
  • insufficient information has been provided by reviewers to judge whether the criteria have been met; or
  • a nomination is unprepared, after at least one reviewer has suggested it be withdrawn.

It is assumed that all nominations have good qualities; this is why the main thrust of the process is to generate and resolve critical comments in relation to the criteria, and why such resolution is given considerably more weight than declarations of support.

Do not use graphics or complex templates on FAC nomination pages. Graphics such as  Done and  Not done slow down the page load time, and complex templates can lead to errors in the FAC archives. For technical reasons, templates that are acceptable are {{ collapse top}} and {{ collapse bottom}}, used to hide offtopic discussions, and templates such as {{ green}} that apply colours to text and are used to highlight examples without altering fonts. Other templates such as {{ done}}, {{ not done}}, {{ tq}}, {{ tq2}}, and {{ xt}}, may be removed.

An editor is allowed to be the sole nominator of only one article at a time, but two nominations may be allowed if the editor is a co-nominator on at least one of them. If a nomination is archived, the nominator(s) should take adequate time to work on resolving issues before re-nominating. None of the nominators may nominate or co-nominate any article for two weeks unless given leave to do so by a coordinator; if such an article is nominated without asking for leave, a coordinator will decide whether to remove it. A coordinator may exempt from this restriction an archived nomination that attracted no (or minimal) feedback.

Nominations in urgent need of review are listed here. To contact the FAC coordinators, please leave a message on the FAC talk page, or use the {{ @FAC}} notification template elsewhere.

A bot will update the article talk page after the article is promoted or the nomination archived; the delay in bot processing can range from minutes to several days, and the {{FAC}} template should remain on the talk page until the bot updates {{Article history}}.

Table of ContentsThis page: Purge cache

Featured content:

Featured article candidates (FAC)

Featured article review (FAR)

Today's featured article (TFA):

Featured article tools:

Nominating

How to nominate an article

Nomination procedure

Toolbox
  1. Before nominating an article, ensure that it meets all of the FA criteria and that peer reviews are closed and archived. The featured article toolbox (at right) can help you check some of the criteria.
  2. Place {{subst:FAC}} at the top of the talk page of the nominated article and save the page.
  3. From the FAC template, click on the red "initiate the nomination" link or the blue "leave comments" link. You will see pre-loaded information; leave that text. If you are unsure how to complete a nomination, please post to the FAC talk page for assistance.
  4. Below the preloaded title, complete the nomination page, sign with ~~~~, and save the page.
  5. Copy this text: {{Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/name of nominated article/archiveNumber}} (substituting Number), and edit this page (i.e., the page you are reading at the moment), pasting the template at the top of the list of candidates. Replace "name of ..." with the name of your nomination. This will transclude the nomination into this page. In the event that the title of the nomination page differs from this format, use the page's title instead.

Commenting, etc

Commenting, supporting and opposing

Supporting and opposing

  • To respond to a nomination, click the "Edit" link to the right of the article nomination (not the "Edit this page" link for the whole FAC page). All editors are welcome to review nominations; see the review FAQ for an overview of the review process.
  • To support a nomination, write *'''Support''', followed by your reason(s), which should be based on a full reading of the text. If you have been a significant contributor to the article before its nomination, please indicate this. A reviewer who specializes in certain areas of the FA criteria should indicate whether the support is applicable to all of the criteria.
  • To oppose a nomination, write *'''Object''' or *'''Oppose''', followed by your reason(s). Each objection must provide a specific rationale that can be addressed. If nothing can be done in principle to address the objection, a coordinator may disregard it. References on style and grammar do not always agree; if a contributor cites support for a certain style in a standard reference work or other authoritative source, reviewers should consider accepting it. Reviewers who object are strongly encouraged to return after a few days to check whether their objection has been addressed. To withdraw the objection, strike it out (with <s> ... </s>) rather than removing it. Alternatively, reviewers may transfer lengthy, resolved commentary to the FAC archive talk page, leaving a link in a note on the FAC archive.
  • To provide constructive input on a nomination without specifically supporting or objecting, write *'''Comment''' followed by your advice.
  • For ease of editing, a reviewer who enters lengthy commentary may create a neutral fourth-level subsection, named either ==== Review by EditorX ==== or ==== Comments by EditorX ==== (do not use third-level or higher section headers). Please do not create subsections for short statements of support or opposition—for these a simple *'''Support''',*'''Oppose''', or *'''Comment''' followed by your statement of opinion, is sufficient. Please do not use a semicolon to bold a subheading; this creates accessibility problems.
  • If a nominator feels that an Oppose has been addressed, they should say so, either after the reviewer's signature, or by interspersing their responses in the list provided by the reviewer. Per talk page guidelines, nominators should not cap, alter, strike, or add graphics to comments from other editors. If a nominator finds that an opposing reviewer is not returning to the nomination page to revisit improvements, this should be noted on the nomination page, with a diff to the reviewer's talk page showing the request to reconsider.


Nominations

23 Wall Street

Nominator(s): Epicgenius ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about a building in Manhattan, New York City, which served as the headquarters of J.P. Morgan & Co. from 1914 to 1988. Though only four stories tall, the "House of Morgan" has been described in The New York Times as one of "the big little buildings of Wall Street". 23 Wall Street's marble and masonry facade still bears scars from the 1920 Wall Street bombing, just one of several indications of the building's long history. In recent years, 23 Wall Street has sat largely empty, despite several plans for its redevelopment. Nonetheless, its architecture is widely admired, to the extent that it was one of the first buildings to be designated as official New York City landmarks in 1965.

This page was promoted as a Good Article almost two years ago after a Good Article review by JBchrch, for which I am very grateful. In addition, the page received a GOCE copyedit last year from Twofingered Typist, who is unfortunately no longer with us, but whose efforts I also appreciate. I think it's up to FA quality now, and I look forward to all comments and feedback. This is the second FAC for this article; the previous nomination failed because it didn't receive enough reviews. Hopefully, that won't be the case this time around. Epicgenius ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from ErnestKrause

Place holder for upcoming comments. That holiday season image in panoramic format at the start of the article looks like it might catch the eye of many readers. If others look at that panoramic image at the start of this article then holiday season wishes to them. ErnestKrause ( talk) 23:02, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

One short comment to start things moving forward is in the '21st Century' section when you state: '...because Sonangol would not guarantee Pa would receive none of the money'. The wording 'not guarantee...none of the money' might look better as 'not guarantee...any of the money'? More later. ErnestKrause ( talk) 00:16, 30 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Lead section

Should mention why and when the main office was moved, when the new building and location were established.

Architecture and facade

Is that 34 feet for the building facade of the entrance, or the actual measurement of the curb space occupied by the corner?

Features and upper story

The upper stories were occupied by the bank officers including Morgan, but how much time did Morgan spend there, and where was Morgan spending most of his office time? Its stated that he spent a great time of time at the Art Museum in NYC in the last decade of his life; where did he spend most of his 'office' time in the last decade of his life?

History

History and anecdote are likely mixed in the story of how Morgan and other financiers saved the USA from default and bankruptcy at some point during desperate economic transitions. Did any of there meeting take place at this location? Is there anything resembling a list of the most important 'historical' meetings which took place at this address, or in Morgan's office?

Impact

The Paul Strand image is very well known; its worth making it appear in larger than regular format if all the copyrights are ok for using this image.

Let me know when you are ready for more notes for the article. ErnestKrause ( talk) 16:00, 30 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Can I Get It

Nominator(s): N Ø 14:43, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about Adele's song "Can I Get It". Several years after the chart-conquering success of " Send My Love (To Your New Lover)", Adele and producers Max Martin and Shellback connected again to create the most "pop" moment on her album 30. Despite the odd decision of not choosing it as a single, it performed like one and reached the top 40 in all major markets. With its moans and pop-rock influences, it certainly sticks out on the otherwise depressing album. Thanks a lot to everyone who will take the time to give their feedback here.-- N Ø 14:43, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review (pass)

Everything is appropriate with File:Adele for Vogue in 2021.png, which is understandable since this image was used for previous FACs. This passes my image review. I do have a quick question. Is there a reason why an audio sample is not used in the article? I could see an argument being made for illustrating the genre or the whistle hook. I completely understand if you have already decided against an audio sample, but I wanted to check with you. I may not have time in the immediate future to do a full prose review, but I will see what I can do. Best of luck with this FAC! Aoba47 ( talk) 21:55, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

The Black Cat (US magazine)

Nominator(s): Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 18:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about an unusual and somewhat influential fiction magazine started at the end of the 19th century. It published many writers who later became famous -- Henry Miller's first sale was to The Black Cat, and it saved Jack London's career by buying a story from him just as he was about to give up writing. The covers were the work of the publisher's wife, Nelly Littlehale Umbstaetter, who went on to have a minor career as an artist. It published science fiction and fantasy, but also just about every other kind of fiction. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 18:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

Thomas Hardy (Royal Navy officer, died 1732)

Nominator(s): Pickersgill-Cunliffe ( talk) 18:19, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about Sir Thomas Hardy, a distinctly unimpressive but surprisingly successful Royal Navy officer. While commanding a ship during the War of the Spanish Succession his chaplain discovered the location of a Spanish treasure fleet, resulting in the Battle of Vigo Bay and a knighthood for Hardy. Further commands and promotion followed for him, but in return all Hardy provided for the navy was a tendency to fail to find and engage the enemy. He would go on to be court martialled once for this but continued to be employed, until in 1716 his illustrious career was terminated possibly because he was a Jacobite. Pickersgill-Cunliffe ( talk) 18:19, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments

  • "Promoted to post-captain in 1693" - is there a link for that rank/term? (both in lead and body)
  • It is already linked in both places as "captain", so to avoid confusion I've removed the "post-" in the latter mentions too.
  • "chasing him until dusk when he returned to shepherding the convoy" - change to "chasing him until dusk before returning to shepherding the convoy" to make it 100% clear who it was that returned
  • Done.
  • "was further investigated by a panel from the Admiralty, and committees of the Houses of Commons and Lords." - don't think that comma is needed
  • Removed.
  • "Rooke's fleet arrived on 12 August" - are we still talking about 1702?
  • Yes.
  • "under Admiral Sir Cloudesley Shovell" - that's a fabulous name. Just saying :-)
  • Indeed! His end was just as spectacular...
  • "Sir John Leake, who Hardy frequently served under" => "Sir John Leake, whom Hardy frequently served under"
  • Done.
  • Notes 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 11, 13 are not complete sentences so don't need full stops
  • Removed.

Sumitro Djojohadikusumo

Nominator(s): Juxlos ( talk) 13:34, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about an Indonesian economist/politician/rebel/oligarch/aristocrat/statesman, depending on when and who you ask (well except "economist", everyone agrees on that), who formed Indonesia's economic policies from 1950 to 1957 and 1968 to the 1980s and arguably to this day. Previous FAC failed due to general lack of interest (helps that Indonesian history isn't exactly common knowledge). Juxlos ( talk) 13:34, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • Don't use fixed px size
  • Suggest adding a legend to the map caption, since the inbuilt one is unreadable at that size
  • File:Suharto,_Irian_Barat_dari_Masa_ke_Masa,_Preface_(cropped).jpg needs a US tag. Nikkimaria ( talk) 14:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Addressed. Is the "legend" sufficient? Juxlos ( talk) 16:09, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Not quite: what represents the operations? The dashed lines, the arrows, both, something else? Nikkimaria ( talk) 02:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The black arrows. Added. Juxlos ( talk) 13:08, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Rhodesia Information Centre

Nominator(s): Nick-D ( talk) 09:48, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

The Rhodesia Information Centre was the unofficial, and illegal, embassy the Rhodesian government maintained in Australia from 1966 to 1980. As the Australian government did not recognise Rhodesia's independence it had almost no contact with Australian officials. Instead, it spread propaganda trying to win Australians over to the white minority regime in Rhodesia and helped businesses evade the trade sanctions against the country. The Rhodesian Information Centre survived multiple attempts by the Australian government to close it, including one which led to a High Court case in 1973 and another which caused a backbench revolt in 1977, and was finally shut down by the Zimbabwean government in 1980. As a result, while this is a slightly obscure topic, the article covers a lively period in Australian foreign relations and provides insights into Australian attitudes towards white minority rule in Africa during this period.

This is my first non-military history FAC. I developed the article as a lockdown project after becoming interested in the topic after the Bradley v Commonwealth article appeared as a DYK in August 2021. The article passed a GA nomination in September that year. It's since been considerably expanded. I'd like to acknowledge the historian Matthew Jordan who, during the period last year before libraries reopened, kindly sent me a copy of his impressive volume of official documents and analysis concerning the Australian government's approach to Rhodesia. Thank you in advance to reviewers for your consideration of this nomination and comments. Nick-D ( talk) 09:48, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • File:Rhodesia_Information_Centre_in_December_1972_-_fair_use_claimed.jpg: the tag currently in use is for cases where the illustration is of the newspaper article/issue - that's not the case here. Suggest using a different tag.
  • File:Zimbabwe_Australia_Locator.png is tagged as lacking description, and is missing a source for the base image. Nikkimaria ( talk) 14:35, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • I've added a description, but can't find the base image: I suspect I'll end up recreating this. Nick-D ( talk) 10:19, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Support I have previously made 2 edits to this page on sourcing and linking. But I was not involved with the addition of information. From what I see, it does meet the FA criteria. It includes all the information that one would expect to see in a chronological order. Sourcing is good and links all go to the correct destinations as far as I could find. Well done on a well written article @ Nick-D:. The C of E God Save the King! ( talk) 07:48, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by a455bcd9

Interesting article, I didn't know anything about this subject: thanks and congrats! A few comments:

  • "UDI" is neither defined nor linked when first mentioned
    • It's linked at the first mention, and I've just added the acronym. Nick-D ( talk) 10:50, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Is it "UDI" or "the UDI". And actually, should it be used at all, especially in titles?
  • "No country ever formally recognised Rhodesia as an independent state" but "Only South Africa and Portugal were willing to enter into formal diplomatic relations with the country.": I don't understand
  • "Enforcement of trade sanctions was also uneven, and was undertaken through regulations rather than legislation.": what does this mean? What does it make a difference if trade sanctions are enforced through regulations rather than legislation?
  • "the quantity of Australian goods exported to Rhodesia increased between 1965 and 1973": by how much? what kind of goods were exported?
  • "T.A. Cresswell-George": do we have his full name?
    • Afraid not. The source and media coverage of him in the NLA's Trove service consistently call him 'T.A. Cresswell-George'. Nick-D ( talk) 10:44, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Rhodesian Ministry of Information" and "Rhodesian Ministry of Foreign Affairs": should we link the whole express or only the last terms?
  • "Rhodesia-Australia Associations": plural or singular? (singular in Rhodesia-Australia Association)
  • Sekai Holland: should we introduce her by adding "human rights activist"?
  • "Croatian independence campaigner": more context, at least in a footnote, would be appreciated. For instance: "Back then, the Socialist Republic of Croatia was part of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia."
    • That seems outside this article's scope. The fact that there was a campaign for Croatia's independence should explain to readers that it wasn't independent at the time. Nick-D ( talk) 10:50, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "majority rule": not defined, not linked. What does it mean? Isn't "democracy" better?
  • "Rhodesian Security Forces" (2x) or "Rhodesian security forces" (1x)?

A455bcd9 ( talk) 15:00, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

The Mother of All Demos

Nominator(s): MyCatIsAChonk ( talk) 20:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about... a famous computer demonstration from 1968 for the Association for Computing Machinery / Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (ACM/IEEE). This demo featured a variety of technologies that would become essential in modern computing, like windows, computer mice, video conferencing, a collaborative real-time editing. The name "The Mother of All Demos" comes from the importance of this demo in modern computing. MyCatIsAChonk ( talk) 20:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

Roanoke Island, North Carolina, half dollar

Nominator(s): Wehwalt ( talk) 18:07, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about... Another of the commemorative half dollars of the classic era, with a subject that would have been familiar if you had gone to school when I did, but probably isn't much taught today, the colony of Roanoke Island, and the birth of Virginia Dare. Enjoy. Wehwalt ( talk) 18:07, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments

  • "The coin commemorated the 350th anniversary of the Roanoke Colony, depicts Sir Walter Raleigh on one side, and Eleanor Dare on the other, holding her child, Virginia Dare, the first child of English descent born in an English colony in the Americas." => "The coin commemorated the 350th anniversary of the Roanoke Colony, depicting Sir Walter Raleigh on one side and Eleanor Dare on the other, holding her child, Virginia Dare, the first child of English descent born in an English colony in the Americas."
  • "The ships explored along the Atlantic coast and Roanoke Island, in what is today North Carolina" - wl NC
  • "although there has been much speculation that they perished on the island or at sea, or assimilated into a nearby Native American tribe" => "although there has been much speculation that they perished on the island or at sea, or were assimilated into a nearby Native American tribe"
I think this would be OK either way but I've changed it.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 15:11, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "The initial models differed from the adopted coins in numbers details" - should this say "a number of details".....?
  • "Vermeule described the reverse, "the frozen....." - feels like there's at least one word missing here. Maybe "Vermeule wrote of the reverse, "the frozen"
Done slightly differently.
  • "urged collectors not to pay from two to three dollars" - "urged collectors not to pay more than two dollars".....?
The source describes the coins as selling from two to three dollars, and I'd rather keep that as is.
  • "$.2.50 in 1950" - there's a stray decimal point before the 2 there
  • Think that's all I got..... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 21:21, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I've either gotten or commented on everything. Thanks for the review.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 15:11, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Punic Wars

Nominator(s): Gog the Mild ( talk) 18:10, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Having taken the articles on all four constituent wars to FA, I am pleased to present the over-arching Punic Wars for your consideration. 118 years of bitter enmity between Carthage and Rome boiled down to 7,200 words. I took this article through GAN in September 2020 and have been tinkering with it since. I have recently been able to give it the time it deserves in an attempt to get it up to FAC quality and take on board comments from the FACs of its four "sub-articles". I look forward to your thoughts, comments and opinions. Gog the Mild ( talk) 18:10, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I had a feeling this article would show up here eventually :) ( t · c) buidhe 19:31, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Placeholder from Airship

Will return shortly. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 19:40, 22 November 2022 (UTC) As always, I emphasise that these are suggestions. Reply[ reply]

  • Preliminary comment: why not have a four paragraph lead, with the opening paragraph for introduction? As of now, the lead rather lacks any context for the general reader, and almost seems to eschew the larger article subject (the Punic Wars as a whole) in favour of details of each indivudual conflict. At least, to me it does. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 16:49, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks: On first reading that sounds reasonable - I wasn't over happy with the lead myself, but couldn't see what to do with it. I'll come up with a suggestion and post it here. Gog the Mild ( talk) 18:40, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • Suggest scaling up pretty much all the maps, and ensuring a legend is visible
  • File:Domain_changes_during_the_Punic_Wars.gif: see MOS:COLOUR. Ditto File:Iberia_211-210BC-it_(cropped).png
  • File:Bronze_statue_of_a_Hellenistic_prince,_1st_half_of_2nd_century_BC,_found_on_the_Quirinal_in_Rome,_Palazzo_Massimo_alle_Terme,_Rome_(31479801364).jpg needs a tag for the original work. Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:56, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

Just a few things,

  • "this was possibly the largest naval battle in history by the number of combatants involved.[88][89][90] " It might be useful to give the number.
I have added a note.
  • "in what is now Piedmont, Cisalpine Gaul " I don't doubt that it's Piedmont but is it still Cisalpine Gaul?
Very tactful. Whoops. Corrected.
  • " Fabius became consul in 215 BC and was reappointed in 214 BC.[193]" Reappointed or reelected?
Reelected. In the sixth source I consulted! Some very dodgy political machinations, but they were technically elections. Duly amended and cited.
  • "frequently with success.[201][113]" Do you mean to have these out of numerical order?
No. I simply attach no importance to the number order of cites. Suspecting that you do, I have swapped them.
  • Claudius Nero is linked on the second use. Ditto Pyrenees.
Good spot. Both fixed.
That's it.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 17:44, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks for that Wehwalt. All done. Gog the Mild ( talk) 22:33, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Support-- Wehwalt ( talk) 22:59, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by a455bcd9

A few comments on the lead (merely questions or suggestions, not demands):

  • "between Rome": should we use "the Roman Republic" in the first mention?
  • "in Sicily" (first mention): replace by "the Mediterranean island of Sicily" (second mention). It also helps explain "the island" at the end of the sentence.
  • "as a result of" => "due to"?
  • "Rome's expansionary attitude": add link to Roman expansion in Italy
  • "Carthage's proprietary approach": what does this mean?
  • "a strong army": add link to Roman army?
  • "on the Mediterranean island of Sicily" => "in Sicily" (also WP:DUPLINK)
  • "in North Africa": based on the GIF I think that "along the North African coast" would be more accurate. Or even "in Tunisia" or "along the Tunisian coast"?
  • "on both sides": add comma after?
  • "By the terms of the peace treaty": add comma after? and link to Treaty of Lutatius?
  • "Sicily was annexed as a Roman province": link to Sicilia (Roman province) instead?
  • "a major but eventually unsuccessful": remove "eventually"?
  • "within the Carthaginian Empire": only use of the term "Carthaginian Empire", to keep or replace by "Carthage"?
  • "witnessed Hannibal's crossing of the Alps": add "Carthaginian general" before Hannibal?
  • "in Iberia (modern Spain and Portugal), on Sicily, on Sardinia and in North Africa": why not "in Iberia (modern Spain and Portugal), Sicily, Sardinia and North Africa"? Also: where in North Africa? I assume mostly in present-day Tunisia and Algeria based on the GIF?
  • "Carthaginian homeland in Africa": what was this homeland? where was it? probably worth mentioning before when Carthage is introduced? Something like: "At the start of the war, Carthage was the dominant power of the western Mediterranean, with an extensive maritime empire centred around the city of Carthage in present-day [or modern? not a big fan of "what is now"] Tunisia." or "centred around the city of Carthage, near modern Tunis on the North African coast"
  • "A treaty was agreed in 201 BC" => "A treaty was agreed upon in 201 BC" + do we have an article for this treaty?
  • "overseas territories": what were these territories?
  • "some of its African ones": which ones?
  • "its armed forces": add link to Military of Carthage?
  • "Carthage ceased to be a military threat": add "For Rome,"?
  • "in what is now Tunisia": not necessary if mentioned earlier (would make more sense)
  • "The previously ": useless clutter?
  • "the Roman province of Africa" => "the Roman province of Africa"?
  • "The ruins of the city" => "Carthage's ruins"?
  • "16 kilometres (10 mi)": why use miles in this article without any ties to the US? Also: do we need that level of precision in the lead? The distance between Carthage and Tunis seems like a detail in the grand scheme of things and the history of the Punic wars. "near" or "east of" is probably enough.

A455bcd9 ( talk) 17:00, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Unlimitedlead

Hi, @ Gog the Mild: nice to meet you again! I'm somewhat caught up with other Wikipedia business right now, so I'll slowly add more comments over time. Upon my first read, I've located some possible punctuation errors. I have listed some below, but I'd suggest consulting someone more knowledgeable in that field than I am. Other than that, I'm very happy with how the article is right now. None of the comments below are mandatory, but it would be nice if they were dealt with.

  • Perhaps the infobox could benefit from some images in the "Belligerents" section. See Anglo-Zanzibar War for an example of what I'm referring to. This is purely cosmetic, so it's alright if you disagree.
  • "...with an extensive maritime empire; while Rome was a rapidly expanding power in Italy...": What conjunction is the semicolon standing in for? If there is none, I think a comma would be more appropriate.
  • "It lasted 23 years, until 241 BC, when after immense materiel and human losses on both sides the Carthaginians were defeated.": "Where" is being used as a conjunction in this case, which makes "after immense materiel and human losses on both sides" an introductory prepositional phrase, so there should be a comma following it (since it is a lengthy phrase).
  • "A treaty was agreed in 201 BC which stripped Carthage of its overseas territories...": There should be a comma before "which", since "which" opens a dependent clause.
  • "Carthage ceased to be a military threat." => "Following this, Carthage ceased to be a military threat." (or some other variation on "following this"; the sentence sounds awkward and should be connected to the previous sentences somehow)
  • Consider introducing Craige Champion like how you did with "The modern historian Andrew Curry".
  • "...the consensus is to accept his account largely at face value...the modern consensus is to accept it largely at face value...": Repetition, please rephrase.
  • "...the account of the Roman historian Livy, who relied heavily on Polybius...Livy relied heavily on Polybius...": More repetition.
  • "According to the classicist Richard Miles, Rome's expansionary attitude after southern Italy came under its control combined with Carthage's proprietary approach to Sicily to cause the two powers to stumble into war more by accident than design.": I cannot comprehend the latter half of this sentence. Perhaps it is an issue on my part, though. A rephrasing couldn't hurt.
  • "The region provided several types of fighter...": Is fighter supposed to be plural, or is that a special military word?
  • "On occasion some of the infantry would wear captured Roman armour, especially among Hannibal's troops.": I think the article would benefit from introducing Hannibal in some way, even if it's as simple as saying "the general Hannibal's troops".
  • "As novice shipwrights, the Romans built copies that were heavier than the Carthaginian vessels and so slower and less manoeuvrable." => As novice shipwrights, the Romans built copies that were heavier than the Carthaginian vessels; thus they were slower and less manoeuvrable.
  • Could more be said about the usage and effectiveness of the corvus before the Romans stopped using it?
  • "...the battle of Cape Ecnomus off the south coast of Sicily." => ...the battle of Cape Ecnomus off the southern coast of Sicily.
  • "The Romans rapidly rebuilt their fleet, adding 220 new ships and captured Panormus (modern Palermo) in 254 BC.": There should be a comma after "ships".
  • "...Hannibal defeated a force of local Gauls which sought to bar his way.": Would "who" be more appropriate here, instead of "which"?

Unlimitedlead ( talk) 04:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Preliminary comment by Borsoka

After quickly comming through the first section ("Primary sources"), my impression is that the article needs a thorough copyedit. The short section contains unnecessary repetitions, and also sentences that (at least seemingly) contradict each other. Examples include:

  • "Modern historians consider Polybius to have treated the relatives of Scipio Aemilianus, his patron and friend, unduly favourably but the consensus is to accept his account largely at face value. The modern historian Andrew Curry sees Polybius as being "fairly reliable"; Craige Champion describes him as "a remarkably well-informed, industrious, and insightful historian". The accuracy of Polybius's account has been much debated over the past 150 years, but the modern consensus is to accept it largely at face value."
  • "The account of the Roman historian Livy, who relied heavily on Polybius, is commonly used by modern historians where Polybius's account is not extant. Livy relied heavily on Polybius..."
  • "Polybius's work is considered broadly objective and largely neutral between Carthaginian and Roman points of view. ... Livy ... was also openly pro-Roman." Borsoka ( talk) 05:01, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

American transportation in the Siegfried Line campaign

Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:35, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about American transportation in the Siegfried Line campaign. It is the second half of of what was once one article on the logistical support of the American armies between September and December 1944, but the article was split. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:35, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from TAOT

I remember reviewing this last time it came here. Happy to see it back, and I'm hoping we reach a consensus to promote. Comments will come shortly; this is a long article, so I will go section by section. I do have an active FAC as well if you wish to return the favor. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 21:25, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Lead

  • "Ardennes Offensive" should be capitalized, yes?
    Uggh. Don't get me started. Per MOS:MILTERMS, Words such as campaign, offensive, siege, action, pocket, etc., are typically not frequently capitalized in sources, so are lowercase in Wikipedia. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    I only brought this up because Battle of the Bulge has "Offensive" capitalized. If MOS says it should be lowercase, then it's fine as is in this article. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 03:39, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The subsequent advance to the German border stretched the American logistical system to breaking point Suggest "to its breaking point".
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The Allies should be linked in the first mention, not in the second paragraph.
    Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:13, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Additional port capacity was obtained through the development of the ports of Rouen and Le Havre in September and October, I assume this is meant to mean the first was in September and the second in October? If so, suggest "September and October, respectively".
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
More later. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 00:19, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Background

  • This is nitpicking (and the article is very well written, so most of my comments will be nitpicking), but in the first sentence, do those emdashes eliminate the need for a DATECOMMA?
    The military date format eliminates it. Parenthetical commas are only required with the mdy date format. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • This stretched the logistical system to breaking point. Same comment as I made regarding the lead section.
    Changed too. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Between 25 August and 12 September, the Allied armies advanced from the D plus 90 phase line, the position the Operation Overlord plan expected to be reached 90 days after D-Day, to the D plus 350 one I didn't understand this on first reading, due to "D plus 350 one". Wasn't sure if this meant D plus 351, or was a typo. Suggest instead saying "D plus 350 line" or something similar to eliminate confusion.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Rather, the problem was the inability to deliver fuel and supplies. Suggest "deliver fuel and supplies to the front lines" or similar.
    Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • there was a shortage of suitable vehicles can you name any examples here (I found 6-ton 6×6 truck in a navbox, for instance) of suitable long-haul vehicles that were in short supply? You name the deuce and a half truck later, which is helpful, and I think examples of what wasn't available would be similarly helpful.
    See American logistics in the Northern France campaign#Motor transport for the details. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • If six to eight weeks could be gained, then bad weather would set in, further restricting the Allies' mobility, air operations and logistical support. This is referring to the onset of winter, right? Suggest making that more explicit.
    Autumn rains and storms. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Will continue in the near future. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 21:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Ports

  • They were operated by the 16th Major Port, which was relieved by the 5th Major Port in September. This is referring to military units? It wasn't clear to me at first. I see there's a bit of explanation later in this section (such as IDing the commanding officer); it might be prudent to move that to the first mention so the reader understands the 16th Major Port is referring to a military logistics unit.
  • suggest linking Harbourmaster.
    Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • In general, what variant of English are you using for this article? I ask because I see both American/Canadian terminology ("railroad car)" and European/Australian terminology ("marshalling yard").
    US military English. Checked this usage against the sources, and "marshalling yard" is what the US military historian uses. Looked at the manual on Joint Logistics and it says "marshalling yard" is the correct term on p. H-2. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    Huh. That's peculiar; in normal American English, using "marshalling yard" is never done, that's a distinctly British English term. But if that's the correct term in US military English, you are in the right to use such terminology. Thanks for checking. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 14:39, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • In October 1945, it was turned over to the French. Might be worth noting this was after the conclusion of the war.
    Sure. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The Seine ports had figured prominently in the Overlord plan, but for the supply of the 21st Army Group. Not sure the "but" is necessary here. Suggest simply "The Seine ports had figured prominently in the Overload plan for the supply of the 21st Army Group".
    Added "not the American forces". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Link Hydrostatic pressure.
    Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Piling can be linked to Pile (type of foundation).
    Linked to timber pilings. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The photo in the Rouen section is interesting, but I don't see how it relates directly to the prose there.
    Logistical unit based in Rouen. Made this explicit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • It was situated on the Scheldt River some 55 miles (89 km) inland, but unlike other ports on tidal estuaries, it could receive deep draft vessels on all tides, with a minimum depth at the quays of 27 feet (8.2 m), and the river was still 500 yards (460 m) wide at this point, which gave even the largest vessels ample room to maneuver. This is quite a long sentence, recommend splitting into two sentences.
    Split sentence. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Some ports mention when they were returned to French/Belgian control, and others do not. Recommend making this consistent across all ports.
    If it is not mentioned, then they weren't handed back during the World War II period. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
More to come soon. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 15:05, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Highways

  • Although the Red Ball Express was the first and most famous express highway delivery route, it was by no means the only one. The first of these was the Red Lion, which ran from 16 September to 12 October, and hauled 18,000 long tons (18,000 t) of supplies from Bayeux to Brussels. You say the Red Ball Express was first here, but immediately contradict that in the following sentence.
    Tightened the wording. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Railways

  • These were manufactured at Differdange in Luxembourg, and after it was liberated it began producing steel beams for the Allies. When did the liberation occur? Recommend adding this to the article.
    On 9 September 1944. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Consider linking "Truck to train transfer" to Transloading.
    Sure. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Over 57,000 railroad cars of various types, including boxcars, flatcars, refrigerator cars and tanker cars were shipped to the continent. Link tank car.
    Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Part of the problem was that the armies liked to keep a certain amount of supplies on wheels, using railroad cars as warehouses on wheels The use of "on wheels" twice in a row is a bit awkward. I recommend "using railroad cars as mobile warehouses" instead.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The vital railway bridge over the Meuse at Namur was struck by a German air raid that set off Allied demolition charges. When did this happen?
    On 24 December 1944. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Air

  • Consider a comma after "November" in In November 3,227 long tons (3,279 t) were dispatched by air,
    Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Inland waterways

Outcome

Overall, well written article. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 16:33, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Happy to support on prose. Trainsandotherthings ( talk) 22:49, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

  • "From September onwards, an increasing volume of supplies came directly from the United States in Liberty ships that were stowed to make optimal use of cargo space." You have in this sentence "an increasing volume of supplies", that takes a singular verb, and "Liberty ships", that takes a plural noun. You say "were stowed", so I'm forced to assume the Liberty ships were stowed, not the volume of supplies. Yet that seems odd.
    Trying to say too much in the one sentence. Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:28, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "quayside". "Dockside" seems more American. Not also that this link goes to a waterfront area in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
    Changed to "dockside" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:28, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The ending of the lede doesn't sound like an ending, but seems to leave off.
    Added another paragraph
  • "albeit on reduced scales" This is a bit unclear whether the units were pared down or their rations and supplies were.
    Added "of rations and supplies". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:28, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "The German strategy was to conduct a fighting withdrawal to the Siegfried Line (which they called the Westwall) while holding and demolishing the ports and harbors. These would be held as long as possible." Probably these could be combined into one sentence (beginning after the parenthetical) " ... while holding the ports and harbors for as long as possible, and demolishing them".
    That will work. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:28, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
More soon.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 18:53, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "But the only deep-water port in Allied hands-on 25 August was Cherbourg.[32]" unclear why the dash between hands and on
    Hyphenated by Iazyges ( talk) [1] Possibly caused by an error in a script. Removed hyphen. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "engineer supplies" Engineering supplies?
    Um sure. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
You use this phrase multiple times.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 23:17, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "as they were being lured away to work on the higher-priority amphibious cargo ships and Boeing B-29 Superfortress programs." Lured? By what incentive? It makes it sound like they were choosing to work on the higher-priority projects, something which may be beyond what ordinary workers would be expected to do. Were there greater incentives such a spay or benefits for the higher priority projects.
    Yes, they were offered better pay and conditions. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Naval harbormaster would take the Army's preferences ... office of the Naval Harbor Master" which?
    Gone with "harbor master"; this seems to be the official military spelling. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "439,660 long tons (446,720 t) of Army cargo discharged at Cherbourg by 13 September, just 38.4 percent was unloaded at quayside berths or over LST ramps; the rest was unloaded by DUKWs and lighters.[60]" This sentence should probably start with "Of".
    Um, it does? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "bogged vehicles" To me, as an American, "bogged-down" seems more natural.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "and he devolved the necessary authority" Hm. Similar issue. Maybe "devolved" could be "delegated"?
    I think "devolved" is more correct, but changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "pontons" Again, EngVar (multiple usages). I usually hear pontoons, i.e., the pontoon bridges they have near Seattle. Unless military usage is different.
    Yes. Military usage is different here. For some reason the US military uses "ponton". In Australia we would say "pontoon". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Phoenix breakwaters salvaged from the Mulberry harbour" You linked the mulberry, though it was a while ago. And should it be "harbor"?
    Unlinked and changed to "harbor" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "noted that the entrances Antwerp and Rotterdam could be blocked and mined" Missing word. Also "but 85,000 long tons (86,000 t) accumulated first two weeks of the port's operation."
    Added missing word. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
More soon.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 19:32, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Eric Harrison (RAAF officer)

Nominator(s): Ian Rose ( talk) 13:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I'm new at this so go easy... ;-) Okay, Eric Harrison was, along with Henry Petre, one of the founders of the original Central Flying School at Point Cook, Victoria, in 1913–14. Unlike Petre, he remained a part of Australian military aviation after World War I, and so was the first man to be known as the "Father of the RAAF", a title more commonly bestowed in later times on one of their students, Richard Williams. So Harrison is, as described by an RAAF officer in 1999, something of an "unsung hero" now, but I hope worthy of your attention... FTR, this has long been an A-Class article at MilHist but I never got round back then to adding some new references and sending to FAC as I did with Petre's article -- better late than never...! Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 13:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments

  • "Harrison was promoted honorary captain" => "Harrison was promoted to honorary captain".....?
  • "Promoted group captain on 1 January 1935" -> "Promoted to group captain on 1 January 1935"....?
    • This is common militarese but happy to alter -- nothing incorrect about "promoted to".
  • "metrological testing" - is this a typo for meteorological? If not is there an appropriate link, because I personally don't know what metrological means?
    • Tks, yes it deserves a link.
  • Think that's all I got - great work! -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 19:46, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 20:40, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • Don't use fixed px size
    • Done.
  • File:Douglas_DC2_Kyeema_1937_(nla.obj-144682466-1).jpg: the NLA indicates that Crome was the collector of these images rather than the author. Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:17, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • Fair enough, I think it started out as one photographer's work then expanded to include others'.

Tks Nikki, let me know if all good. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 09:44, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review. I will make minor copy edits as I go. Shout if I mess anything up.

  • "his post of Director of Aeronautical Inspection". Why the upper case initial lettrs?
    • The ADB uses lower case but the majority of other sources cap the first letters of Commonwealth titles.
  • "Gaining employment as an instructor for Bristol, he taught flying on behalf of the company in Spain and Italy, as well as in Halberstadt, Germany, where he became aware first-hand of that country's militarism; some of the students he trained and examined later served as pilots in the Luftstreitkräfte during World War I." A pretty chunky sentence.
    • Won't disagree but hoped the semi-colon gave pause for breath -- if you're really keen to split it I'm happy to have a go though.
  • "gaining his commission": is there any suitable link for "commission"?
  • You consistently don't put 'the' before CFS (with the exception of "maintaining the CFS's complement"), is there a reason? Also lead "the Central Flying School"; captions "Eric Harrison at Central Flying School", "in a B.E.2 at Central Flying School".
    • CFS is consistently referred to in sources without the definite article, and in fact that exception you note should be altered accordingly.
  • "30 feet (9.1 m)". I suspect 9.1 m may be false precision.
    • I agree, forgot the template had a rounding parameter -- actioned.
  • "when he was posted to Britain ... at the end of World War I". A picky point, but it seems he was posted before the war's end.
    • Well I felt we're only talking a few weeks' difference and by the time he started his work in Britain the war had probably ended -- I could make "towards the end" if you feel strongly about it.
I do. At the point he was posted the war had not ended and I am not sure that it was expected to. Or rephrase to something like "when he was posted to Britain" → 'when he took up a post in Britain' perhaps?
Tweaked.
  • The chronology jumps around a little disconcertingly. In one paragraph it goes from 1921 to 1938 and back to 1931; understandably given the context. But the next paragraph starts in 1935, before progressing to 1937. Separately, is there nothing to report from between 1921 and 1931?
    • I think this impression was caused by a typo in the first para of that section, giving his appointment as Director of Aeronautical Inspection as being 1938 instead of 1928 -- actioned.
Ah, yes, indeed.
  • "Federal government's". Is it usual t have an upper-case F and a lower-case g?
    • Again some sources cap both words, some just the first, and some none. We could hedge our bets in this case and make "Australian government" -- actioned.
  • One daughter is mentioned. Was she his only child?
    • No other children mention in sources.
Then perhaps 'Their daughter and only child, Greta ...'?
Sure.
  • "just as the war had ended". Perhaps something a little more encyclopedic? 'three days after the end of the war' or similar maybe?
    • I kinda like the slightly imprecise wording, given the end of fighting and the official surrender of Japan were a few days apart -- WDYT?
I don't object to the imprecision, but to the casualness of "just". Eg, I am happy with 'On 5 September 1945, as the war ended'; or 'On 5 September 1945, at the end of the war'; etc.
Tweaked.

Lovely stuff. Gog the Mild ( talk) 13:58, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Tks for reviewing, Gog -- replies above. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 17:24, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Second round replies above, tks again. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 19:51, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Supporting, but note the two remaining instances of "the Central Flying School". Gog the Mild ( talk) 20:10, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Tks Gog. Actually you've made me re-check more sources -- seems that in its early years it was generally referred to as the Central Flying School, but in its later incarnation (WWII and after) the the was generally dropped; in either case the abbreviation is generally just CFS without the. So I've altered the captions that had "Central Flying School" alone accordingly. Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 20:39, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Harry

Hi Ian, welcome to FAC. I hope this will be the first of many nominations! ;) You haven't left a lot of nits for me to pick.

  • with the minister's daughter Ruby as passenger should probably have commas either side of Ruby to make her a subclause
  • AAIC inquiries were generally held in camera In camera should probably be italicised as a Latin term.

That's it. I'll support now as I feel it meets the criteria even with those two minor imperfections. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:58, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thanks Harry, that's done -- for good measure I've also made Greta a subclause in Their daughter and only child Greta joined the WAAAF... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 19:54, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Space Shuttle Columbia disaster

Nominator(s): Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 18:53, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster in 2003. The article's GA review was just completed. The 20th anniversary is February 1, 2023, and it has been my goal to get it to FA-status before then. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 18:53, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Hawkeye7

I reviewed this article at GA, and believe that it meets Featured Article standard. It seems like only yesterday

Image review - pass

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:19, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

  • It's unclear to me why File:ColumbiaFLIR2003.png is a US government image given the Commons page states it was created by two Dutch pilots flying a helicopter. The source (a YouTube video uploaded by a non-official account) also doesn't provide any evidence to confirm these details, or alternate details. Nick-D ( talk) 21:30, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    I'm not sure about this one. I'll remove it for the time being. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 12:03, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Harry

I remember this clearly. I was at school. :(

I remember it as well! One crazy thought to me is that back then the Challenger disaster seemed far away (I wasn't even born yet), and now the time since the Columbia disaster until now is longer than the time between the two disasters. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:52, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Is there a more illustrative image we could use for the infobox?
    What type of picture are you thinking? Unfortunately, I'm not able to find a free image of the iconic shot of debris burning in the atmosphere. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:52, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • I think your approach to the lead for the Challenger disaster is better than trying to shoehorn the title into the opening sentence.
    Thanks! Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:52, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • and deploy commercial,[2]: III–66  military,[2]: III–68  and scientific payloads.[2]: III–148 Are the payloads directly relevant? And if so can we consolidate the footnotes to avoid clutter?
    I consolidated the refs. I don't think the payloads are directly relevant, but they do provide context on the Space Shuttle and why a large spaceplane was used. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:52, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • the sensor's data was recorded to an internal recorder Recorded to a recorder?
    Changed to "data was recorded to internal storage" Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:52, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • aileron trim changed from the predicted values from the increasing drag caused by the damagebecause of the increasing drag?
    Fixed. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • as well as still in the stowed positionor in the stowed position?
    Fixed. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The orbiter began to yaw to the left I've watched enough Air Crash Investigation to know what yaw is but it might benefit from an explanatory gloss
    I added that the orbiter was turning to the left and put "yaw" in parenthesis. Does that work? Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:59, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • but this was not noticed by the crew or mission control Can we use active voice?
    Fixed. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 22:59, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Columbia's flight data recorder was found near Hemphill, It would be useful to know how far away this is from other locations mentioned. I'm aware that Texas is enormous but we don't have a god idea at this point in the article of how widely the debris was spread.
    Added the distance from Nacogdoches. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 13:54, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • To address the problem of foam loss for the second "Return to Flight" mission Lose the scare quotes (you don't use them for the first RTF mission)
    Removed. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 13:55, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Is there any cultural impact to mention? Books, films, documentaries, etc? This was the news event of the year and would have been one of the defining events of the decade were it not for 9/11 and its effects. It's one of those events that people remember where they were when they heard the news.
    Added mentions of books and movies. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 14:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • What was the long-term impact on NASA besides the cancellation of the Space Shuttle programme? Did the disaster prompt a culture change? Has there been a deliberate move away from manned spaceflight or is that a coincidence?
    I have not seen any sources that state the reason for the long break in crewed NASA spaceflights was the Columbia disaster. Seeing as the Constellation program was started in 2005, it's not like NASA was stopping its crewed efforts in the wake of the disaster. Regarding other NASA changes, I think I detailed the new precautions that were taken (rescue flights, ISS lifeboat, tank redesigns) and the cancellation of the program; is there anything else you're looking for? Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 15:03, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:27, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ HJ Mitchell: Think I addressed all of your points; thanks for the review! Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 16:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

  • " After completing STS-107," Does the mission end at some point before touchdown?
  • Not sure what I was thinking. Changed to "During the STS-107 mission". Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 15:07, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "nearly catastrophic" maybe "near-catastrophic"
  • " It flew for the first time in April 1981" I might say "It flew in space for the first time" to let out the ALT.
  • "which provided protection for temperatures below 650 °C (1,200 °F). " Maybe "at" for "for"?
  • "The ET consisted of a larger tank for liquid hydrogen (LH2), stored at −253 °C (−423 °F) and a smaller tank for liquid oxygen (LOX)," You don't need to say both larger and smaller. All you are doing is establishing relative size. I'd delete "larger".
  • "but it was stated that the ET was safe to fly.[5]: 125 " Does the source say who concluded this?
  • Changed to "but the Program Requirements Control Board decided that the ET was safe to fly". Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 15:49, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "At the time, the mission or ground crew did not notice the debris strike." I would move "at the time" to the end of the sentence.
  • "she had asked about the imaging requirement from a flight director but not the Debris Assessment Team" This is a little fuzzy what requirement? This is obviously a crucial event.
  • I expanded this to explain who Ham consulted with and the basis of her decision; hope it makes it more clear. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 15:59, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "was concerned with the potential delays that may be caused by a foam loss event." Suggest you don't need both "potential" and "may", consider ..."was concerned with the potential delays from a foam loss event."
  • "flight director Steve Stich sent an e-mail to Husband and McCool to tell them about the foam strike and inform them there was no cause for concern about damage to the TPS, as foam strikes has occurred on previous flights.[5]: 159 " has should be had.
  • "Soon after it entered California airspace, the orbiter shed several pieces of debris, which were observed on the ground as sudden increases in brightness of the air around the orbiter." I'd change "which were" to "events"
  • Perhaps more could be said about what took place in Mission Control after contact was lost. The time the vehicle was expected to land would be useful as well.
  • There's not much more about what happened in Mission Control; they tried to reestablish communication until they learned that the orbiter broke up. I added KSC information, including the expected landing time. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 16:51, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "The crew remains were transported for the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology at Dover Air Force Base." I would say "to" rather than "for".
  • "worms" It would be good idea to say what they were doing there, what sort of experiment. Weren't there other animals? You mention that they would have been euthanized under the rescue procedure the review board discussed.
  • I expanded on the experiment. Regarding the other animals, there were other small animals (bees, silkworms, fish) on board for different experiments. I don't think that needs to be mentioned in this article as I'm not seeing any post-disaster information about them. Does that work? Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 16:12, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "the KSC" I think I'd get rid of the "the" (you do this at least twice). Similar "the JSC".
  • "NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe convened the Columbia Accident Investigation Board (CAIB) " Is "convened" the best word? It wasn't meeting until some hours later.
  • I changed it to "called to convene" to make it more evident that it wasn't an immediate process. Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 16:17, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • You use "argued" twice with respect to the board's conclusions. I'd sooner see "found" or "concluded". The board wasn't getting into a debate.
  • "As a result of the foam loss, NASA grounded the Space Shuttle fleet.[34][43]" This, I assume, refers to the 2005 mission on Discovery and not the loss of Challenger. If so, I'd add "again" to the end.
  • "from its scheduled launch of July 1" no year is mentioned in this paragraph.
  • On the two subsequent missions, I think it would be useful to mention what vehicle would have been used had serious damage to the shuttle been discovered on orbit.
  • I would suggest deleting any of the musical tributes that can't be supported by secondary sources as trivial.
That's it.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 21:19, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Wehwalt: Think I addressed all of your points; thanks for the review! Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 16:52, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Support-- Wehwalt ( talk) 16:58, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Kusma

Great idea to try to get this ready in time for the anniversary. I'll review this more thoroughly later in the week, but I have one question that has been bugging me in the past and that I would like to see answered in the article: Why did the foam strike had such a high relative velocity? It took me embarrassingly long to figure out that this was due to drag in the still quite relevant air pressure at about 20km (essentially the foam slows down very quickly and is struck by the accelerating orbiter). In vacuum, this would have been far less of a problem. After I figured this out, I thought of looking into the sources, and pages 60 and 61 of the CAIB report explain the physics of the collision, so this can be included without OR. — Kusma ( talk) 22:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ Kusma: I added a sentence in about this. Thanks for doing the bulk of work in finding the correct source, including page number, when suggesting I add information in! Balon Greyjoy ( talk) 12:31, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Marina Bay MRT station

Nominator(s): ZKang123 ( talk) 10:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is actually an old GA of mine, promoted back in 2020. Now, with the opening of the Thomson East Coast line, I've greatly expanded the article particularly information on train services and the artworks in the station.

Cheers to the new triple-line interchange station on the Singapore MRT network! ZKang123 ( talk) 10:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Steelkamp

  • Does Gammon refer to Gammon Construction? If so, I think it should be linked. Steelkamp ( talk) 06:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The body should stand on its own. That means that:
    • "The station opened on 4 November 1989 and was the southern terminus of the North South line until the NSL extension to Marina South Pier station opened in 2014." should be changed to "The station opened on 4 November 1989 and was the southern terminus of the North South line (NSL) until the NSL extension to Marina South Pier station opened in 2014." Note that Marina South Pier MRT station is linked as well. Steelkamp ( talk) 06:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • "An extension of the CCL to this station was first announced in April 2007." should be changed to "An extension of the Circle line (CCL) to this station was first announced in April 2007." Steelkamp ( talk) 06:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • East Coast Parkway is only mentioned once, so the acronym should be removed. Steelkamp ( talk) 06:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Did all of the above as requested ZKang123 ( talk) 09:59, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "The station became an interchange station with the CCL upon the completion of the two-station branch extension to this station from Promenade station in January 2012." This can be changed to "The station became an interchange station with the CCL upon the completion of the two-station branch extension from Promenade station in January 2012." Steelkamp ( talk) 10:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The Thomson-East Coast Line section confuses me. Is the Thomson–East Coast line the same thing as the Thomson line? This sentence doesn't really make sense then: "On 15 August 2014, the Land Transport Authority (LTA) announced that Marina Bay station would be part of the proposed Thomson–East Coast line (TEL)." Steelkamp ( talk) 10:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • Why is this sentence future tense: "The station will be constructed as part of Phase 3, consisting of 13 stations between the Stevens and Gardens by the Bay stations." Hasn't this already happened? Steelkamp ( talk) 10:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Fixed future tense. Changed to "was".
    Well, the TEL was actually planned as two different lines: Thomson Line and East Region Line. Before LTA merged these two projects. ZKang123 ( talk) 10:42, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • Well in that case, this sentence should be reworded: "On 15 August 2014, the Land Transport Authority (LTA) announced that Marina Bay station would be part of the proposed Thomson–East Coast line (TEL)." I suggest explicitly mentioning the merge of these two projects. Never mind, you reworded that whilst I was writing this. Steelkamp ( talk) 07:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Hope you like this edit. Steelkamp ( talk) 07:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • What does "link way and mined tunnels" mean? Steelkamp ( talk) 07:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Does CD need to be in brackets when that abbreviation is not used again? Steelkamp ( talk) 07:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Should slab link to concrete slab? Steelkamp ( talk) 07:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • What does "earth-backed, air-backed and airtight walls and slabs" mean? Steelkamp ( talk) 07:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "There are also provisions for a future underground pedestrian network, to be converted from a temporary maintenance facility near the station, as well as connections to future developments.[61][59] The tracks leading to the defunct facility were removed in June 2021." Could be reworded. Steelkamp ( talk) 07:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Rectified much of the above.
    "earth-backed, air-backed and airtight walls and slabs" - I thought it should be obvious enough, basically being reinforced materials. ZKang123 ( talk) 13:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments

  • "The main challenges of the construction include" => "The main challenges of the construction included"
  • " one of the four stations that participated in Exercise Northstar V" - appreciate there's a link, but it wouldn't hurt to clarify what this was eg " one of the four stations that participated in Exercise Northstar V, a large-scale emergency preparedness exercise"
  • "Contract 886 for the construction of cut and cover tunnels at Marina Bay Area" - previously you wrote "cut-and-cover" with hyphens
  • "This is due to the layers of weak and strong old alluvium" - is there a wikilink for alluvium?
  • "the piles supporting the NSL tunnels have to be" => "the piles supporting the NSL tunnels had to be"
  • "As announced during a visit by Transport Minister S. Iswaran" - don't think you need to give his job title twice in two consecutive sentences. Just using his surname the second time will suffice
  • "6:25 am on Sundays and Public holidays" - no reason for capital P (in two places)
  • That's all I got - great work! -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 19:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Rectified above problems. ZKang123 ( talk) 10:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Anna Lee Fisher

Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 ( talk) and Balon Greyjoy ( talk)

This article is about Anna Fisher, one of the first six women selected to be astronauts by NASA in 1978. During her long and distinguished career at NASA, she was involved with the Space Shuttle, the International Space Station and the Orion spacecraft. This article is the fifth in the series about the first six women astronauts, following Sally Ride, Judith Resnik, Kathryn Sullivan and Rhea Seddon. Unlike those astronauts, Fisher has no biography, so its writing was more difficult. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:20, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Harry

Not sure why this doesn't seem to be attracting much attention. Let's fix that.

  • one of the astronauts supported vehicle integrated testing and payload testing at Kennedy Space Center. looks like a copy-editing error. One of the astronauts who supported?
    Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • She was a CAPCOM from January 2011 to August 2013 that's the first mention of CAPCOM; the acronym needs a gloss.
    Glossed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Her mother Elfriede had been born in Germany in 1918 but had emigratedwas born and lose the second had.
    Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • when she was sixteen years old
  • The two had returned to the United States lose the had again
    Lost. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • When she was in high school she did volunteer work at → volunteered at?
    Um okay. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • published three article in the Inorganic Chemistry needs a copy edit
    Already done - see the talk page. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • But she saw others who had earned PhDs after six years of work but still could not find jobs, and decided to pursue medicine instead. Two "but"s in close proximity; you can probably just lose the first one.
    Changed second "but" to "yet" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • At the time, medicine was considered a "non-traditional" career for women Is that a quote or are those scare quotes?
    A quote. "As a woman in two non-traditional women's jobs". Had to look up the article on scare quotes. Things were different in Australia, where my own university graduated its first women doctors in 1891. While women were a minority of students, nearly half studied medicine. [2] While writing about the Great War period, I found that British women were surprised that that Australia had women doctors, and even more so that they were allowed to vote in the 1916 election. So although supported by the source, I didn't want to state it in Wikipedia's voice. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • the son of a United States Air Force colonel Sea of blue and neither link is directly relevant to the subject; perhaps lose the link to the USAF?
    Changed "colonel" to "officer" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • At lunch one day he informed Bill, who was now her fiancée Whose fiancée?
    Already corrected spelling - see talk page. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • They had three weeks to assemble the required documents So they both applied? This isn't clear from the preceding text.
    Yes. Added that both of them applied. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • She attended meetings of the astronauts' spouses Who did?
    She did. I didn't want to say "Fisher" here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Abbey decided that the five MDs of the 1978 and 1980 1978 and 1980 ... what? Also, no spaces with an emdash
    Added "astronaut selections". Removed space. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Fisher became pregnant while working as a Cape Crusader Can we reword this slightly so it doesn't sound like it happened during her NASA work?
    Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • with pilot David M. Walker and mission specialists Fisher, Gardner and Joseph P. Allen Not a good use of "with" anyway but the sentence as-structured suggests that the latter two were jointly commanding.
    Re-structured. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Fisher wanted to perform Capsule communicator (CAPCOM) Is capsule a proper noun here?
    Decapitated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • they had gone ahead and launched the second one "gone ahead and" adds words but not meaning
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • if they could retrieve one satellites, and a miracle if they could retrieve two Another gremlin. One satellite or one of the satellites?
    Removed the "s". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Dale Gardner had a son a few months older than Kristin, all the others had older children That's a comma splice
    Added conjunction. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • so her daughter would know what her mother was like if Maybe shorten to just "in case"?
    Changed "if" to "in case" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • on November 8, 1984, on what was Discovery's second mission Trim "what was"; more words for no added meaning again
    Deleted as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "by extraordinary exertions have contributed to the preservation of property from perils of all kind." MOS:LQ and you need a ref after a quote.
    Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss)
  • It was to be commanded by Michael L. Coats, with John E. Blaha Same issue as above
    Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Subsequently, the date slipped and the crew "Subsequently" has many of the same issues as "however" in implying connections that may not exist. In this case, you lose nothing by culling it.
    Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • she advised an aspiring astronaut to "study Russian" I don't think the quote marks are really necessary
    Removed quotes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • she was involved in the development of the Flight instruments display I doubt flight is a proper noun
    De-capitated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Can we think of a better title for the last prose section than "in popular culture"? These sections tend to become laundry lists of every mention of the subject. And on that note, I'm not sure all those appearances are notable enough to mention, but are there sources to support an overarching sentence about her public profile or appearances, so at least the list has context?
    Changed to "public appearances". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • What was it about the "iconic photo" that was so attractive? And how was it used to promote the bands?
    I'll see if I can find something. Don't hold your breath. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Note 4 contains an inline external link, which is almost always a no-no.
    Unlinked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

—There are other places the prose could be tightened but the FA criteria don't demand perfection. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:50, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Welcome back Harry. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:13, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thank you for your invitation to participate. Two things immediately come to my mind: (1) The sentence "Anna was interviewed by Connie Chung, and that night Bill took Anna and Resnik, who had also been selected, out to dinner to celebrate". Now "Connie Chung" links to a journalist, but that article doesn't mention any position ever held at NASA. Is this the same Connie Chung? If yes, NASA needs to be mentioned, if no, then a disambiguation link like Connie Chung (NASA) might be necessary. (2) Anna Lee Fisher's mother was born in Hof, Bavaria, Germany, and grew up in Munich; also Anna Lee Fisher is fluent in German. (My source is that I met a German autograph collector at a fair once who showed me a personalised autograph he had obtained from Dr Fisher as a child which was accompanied by a short letter from her in German). Might or might not be useful in the article. ViennaUK ( talk) 13:25, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

  • The Connie Chung link is fine - the journalist is the one who interviewed Fisher on TV. She never worked for NASA.
  • Yes, Fisher speaks German fluently. Added this to the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:34, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Just a comment, not a full review, but I'm concerned that the 'iconic photo' section and its associated notes feels to me like OR. What secondary sources describe it as 'iconic'? FN 67 seems to only cite that the image was posted on ffffound, not any of the other preceding content. Why are these selected uses of the image encyclopedically relevant? Note three feels like speculation, particularly the sentence "It is possible Bryson photographed Fisher on multiple occasions, but that has yet to verified." How do we know that the blogspot post is accurate and was actually posted by Bryson's son? Why are Bryson's speculations posted on social media encyclopedically relevant in Note 4? What cites that " The only publicly available archive of Bryson's work is at The Briscoe Center for American History at The University of Texas."? What cites that " became massively popular on the internet"? Etc. Eddie891 Talk Work 15:02, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

  • "metallocarboranes,[7]" (both lead and body) Can we have links?
  • "published three articles in the Inorganic Chemistry." I'd get rid of the "the"
  • "Sims was invited to come to the Johnson Space Center (JSC) in to Houston," probably the last "to" is not needed
  • "On one weekend day each month, she worked in the emergency room at Houston Methodist Clear Lake Hospital or Tampa General Hospital in Florida or to keep her medical skills well-honed.[26] " Similarly the last "or".
  • "Fisher was based at the White Sands Test Facility." It might be worth mentioning this was an alternate landing site.
  • "It would open it like an umbrella, and take hold of the satellite." The second "it" seems surplus.
  • "Fisher would also assist the Hauck and Walker as the mission's flight engineer (MS2)." Similarly the first "the"
  • There's probably not much you can do about this, but our article says shear wind is a phenomenon of the lower atmosphere and you're talking about the upper atmosphere.
  • "This was the first time that a Space Shuttle had deployed a satellite a night." some error near the end
  • "Post-Challenger" can we italicize Challenger?
  • "Red Book magazine" Redbook, surely. And the magazine and TV program titles in this paragraph take italics.
That's it.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 21:19, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Matangi (album)

Nominator(s): ChrisTheDude ( talk) 17:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thought I would give people a break from endless articles on Gillingham F.C. :-) Back in 2013 I successfully nominated this article for GA but I'm not sure why I never brought it to FAC as I had done with the artist's previous studio albums. So, nine years later, here it finally is..... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 17:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by FrB.TG

Comments to come soon FrB.TG ( talk) 10:17, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ FrB.TG: hope you are well, just wondering if you still hoped to take a look at this article....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 07:50, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Hi there. I was waiting for Your Power to finish their review before I start mine.
  • Be consistent with the Oxford comma. Places like "Hit-Boy, Doc McKinney, Danja, Surkin and The Partysquad" use it while others like "Bring the Noize", "Come Walk with Me", and "Y.A.L.A." don't.
  • "reportedly featured input from WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange" - reportedly indicates an expression of doubt when M.I.A. herself confirmed it. I see no reason that the artist herself would lie about something like this.
  • "The album received highly positive reviews from critics, many of whom cited it as a return to form" - whose return to form?
  • "She made a decision to" -> "She decided to"
  • However, she said it does not have "a tranquil flute massage sound." Full stop after the quotation mark after MOS:LQ.
  • "Despite an initial mixed review, Pitchfork ranked the album at number 46" - although the review and the ranking are both from Pitchfork, they came from different critics so I would leave the "mixed" part out. FrB.TG ( talk) 11:35, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ FrB.TG: - all done :-) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 19:47, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Support on prose. Good work. FrB.TG ( talk) 20:01, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image and media review (pass)

Unfortunately, I will not be able to do a full prose review of the article, but I still wanted to help in some way. My comments on the images and audio sample are below:

  • File:MIA Matangi Cover.png has a clear purpose in the article and a complete WP:FUR. I would encourage you to add WP:ALT text.
  • For File:Matangi.jpg, I would alter the caption to avoid starting with "The artist" as I find that phrasing to be awkward. Shortening the image caption may also help prevent it from cutting across section headings. I would encourage you to add WP:ALT text to this image as well. Everything looks appropriate for the image on the Wikimedia Commons end.
  • File:Bad Girls - MIA.ogg needs a stronger justification for inclusion. It is encouraged to keep non-free media usage to a minimum and to the best of my understanding, audio samples should only be used in an album article if they are somehow representative of the album as a whole and illustrate something the prose cannot alone (like critics saying a certain song represents a genre, production choice, etc. throughout the entire album). This audio sample is more focused on the individual song rather than the album.
  • Do you think the article would benefit from including an image of M.I.A., preferably from around the album's release?
  • This is not related to the image or audio sample, but I was surprised that the article does not a legacy or impact section (á la 1989). Was there any kind of retrospective articles or analysis of this album?

I hope that this review was helpful. Apologies for not being able to do a full prose review. To summarize my comments above, I would encourage you to add WP:ALT text to both images, revise the Matangi image caption, and either remove or provide a different rationale for the audio sample. The last two bullet points are clarification questions. Best of luck with this FAC! Aoba47 ( talk) 16:08, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ Aoba47: - thanks for your comments. I'll address the first three in due course but re: the last one, I couldn't find anything of note. The album was not a major success (only one week in the UK albums chart), is not one that has been a major influence on any other artists as far as I can see, did not boost M.I.A. to greater success like that Taylor Swift album did for her (her career was already on a downward trajectory, TBH), and has not really been written about in any significant way since its initial period of release. Her first album was featured in a book published years later called something like "Albums You Must Hear Before You Die" but nobody really looks at this one in the same way.... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:14, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you for the clarification. I was surprised because I remember "Bad Girls" just being everywhere at the time, but this is probably a case of me confusing that with the album having a greater sense of importance. If anything, that song may have a more long-lasting legacy than the album. I appreciate that you took the time to answer this question. Your explanation makes sense to me. Aoba47 ( talk) 16:19, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
All other points now addressed -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:26, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you for addressing everything. File:M.I.A. - Festival Primavera Fauna 2013.jpg checks out to me. I would recommend archiving the source link and adding an author link to user's main Flickr account, but neither of these points are requirements. If you ever want to add an audio sample to the article, please let me know. I have briefly scanned through the article, and the Jim Carroll review would provide a solid justification for "Bad Girls" as an example of the album's "hard-bodied pop tracks" or the Alexis Petridis review identifies " Bring the Noize" as representative of the album. Either way, this passes my image and media review. Aoba47 ( talk) 17:03, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments Support from NØ

  • M.I.A. is addressed as a recording artist here, as a rapper and hip hop artist on previous album articles, and as a "rapper and singer" on her biography. I was curious which one you think is the most appropriate one and it should probably be consistent.
  • "Matangi did, however, top the US Dance/Electronic Albums chart" - I've been advised against the usage of "however" on some nominations
  • "The song "Y.A.L.A.", ..., was seen as a response to the slogan ..." - Was this the perception of critics? This could be more clearly stated
  • "Matangi was originally teased when M.I.A. posted a photo of herself in the studio in November 2011, on TwitPic" => "M.I.A. originally teased Matangi by posting a photo of herself in the studio on TwitPic in November 2011"
  • "Internationally, Matangi attained moderate impact on the charts, reaching number 47" - The middle part probably constitutes original research unless directly stated by a secondary source and should be removed. Which would leave this as "Internationally, Matangi reached number 47 ..."
Glad to see you take on something music related! That's all from me :-)-- N Ø 17:12, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ MaranoFan: - all addressed! -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 19:08, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Elias

Hi Chris! With all the help you've extended in my previous two FACs I find it fair that I finally review one of yours :-) I have one up right now if you're interested!

  • Maaaany sources here need archive links. Some like the WaPo source and the RS source are dead.
    • I've replaced all the dead links. I'll keep trying to run the bot to archive the ones which aren't dead, but I don't believe this is a requirement for FAC..... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 21:44, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Some OR concerns:
    • "M.I.A. Blasts Oprah..." does not explicitly say Maya tanked commercially compared to her previous albums. All we get is "M.I.A.'s new album /\/\ /\ Y /\ drops from No. 9 to No. 34 in its second week on the Billboard 200, selling 11,000 copies, according to Nielsen Soundscan (down 61%)."
    • The three sources cited before that do say that Maya received mixed-negative reviews as the current article implies, but none of them say that her albums before that received critical acclaim.
      • Sources replaced
  • The critical reception section could use work.
    • Too many quotations for comfort.
    • WP:RECEPTION try to consolidate similar comments from varying reviews instead of paraphrasing every review you used. In other words, summarize the reviews as a whole and not the reviews individually. For example, write "Gavin Haynes of NME and Alexis Petridis of The Guardian praised the album for its nonconformity to the characteristics of mainstream music" instead of paraphrasing whatever specific comments they made.
  • "Following this, the artist [M.I.A.]... The rapper [M.I.A.] has been..." -> let me preface this comment by saying that this is completely optional and you don't really have to implement it since a lot of it has to do with stylistic preference. I'm not a fan of WP:ELEVAR such as this one; this writing style is more for the realm of magazines and newspapers than encyclopedias. Either we use her name or her pronouns.
  • "experienced a period during which she struggled to find motivation to make music" this is a lot of words to simply say "Following this, M.I.A. struggled to find motivation for new music." Verbosity is a recurring aspect of this article - "originally teased", "the first by M.I.A.", "She eventually found initial inspiration".
  • "allegedly featured input... M.I.A. contended... who purportedly..." this is pretty strong and aggressive wording, portraying the claim that Assange helped M.I.A. with the album as something outrageous. Is there any reason why we should doubt whatever M.I.A. is saying about her own album's recording? Can't we simply say "M.I.A. said" ?
  • Pretty sure "western" and "eastern" have to be capitalized
  • What makes Metro an ok source to use here?
  • Some points on comprehensiveness:
    • Can we clarify in the prose (or in a footnote, if you wish) why M.I.A. and Diplo were in dispute? This seems like an interesting thing that begs to be explained.
    • For an album inspired heavily by Hinduism I expected to see which songs tackle the relevant themes. Which songs deal with karma, for example? Which songs incorporate the om chant? Are there any other themes explored on this album?
  • "noted for" see MOS:SAID
  • The last sentence of "Promotion" is way
    @ ChrisTheDude, whoops my bad. Thanks for pointing that out. I meant to say that there are a couple unwieldy sentences in that article, such as that one. I see that you have already split the sentence I mentioned, which is a good start. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
    📝 " Don't get complacent..."
    10:42, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Ref 11 has "NME" in publisher but all other NME sources put it in work
  • "Stereogum writer" stereogum should be italicised

My primary concerns have to do with sourcing and the professional tone of the prose. I have not done a full spot check of the article references, but if anyone deems it necessary then by all means. Currently, I do not feel confident to offer my support - I am leaning oppose. Sincerely hope this gets addressed promptly - I may do a proper, full review of the article once these initial concerns are struck. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
08:12, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Continuing...

  • "Despite the positive critical reception and its inclusion in several year-end lists, its first-week sales were significantly lower than those of M.I.A.'s previous album, and its chart peak was lower in all major markets" see the OR concern above. Even if this were verified, commercial success and critical success are not mutually inclusive (look at whatever Drake is doing) so there is no need to contrast the two information.
  • Adding to comprehensiveness concerns:
    • I read in passing somewhere that M.I.A. infuses a lot of her music with political commentary. Can we clarify this context in the background so the last sentence of the "Recording" section does not seem random?
    • I read the Fader interview a bit and it tells me that M.I.A. was inspired by stories of female spirituality in particular while making the album. The article needs to elaborate on which songs tackle these themes in the "Music and lyrics" section. I can see that there are lots of tracks that have not been discussed here - maybe those are the songs that employ such themes?
    • "it was eventually pushed back by M.I.A.'s label, which claimed the record was 'too positive'." What is this supposed to mean? I'd elaborate or remove it altogether.
  • The phrase "music and lyrics" is synonymous with "composition" so rename "Composition and recording" to "background and recording"
  • Mentioning that Diplo provided no contributions to the album whilst failing to mention the album's many contributors which are listed in the lead feels off
  • This article is about Matangi. It is out of place to mention that "Bad Girls" first appeared in a mixtape before this album and that that version sounded different.
  • "which led M.I.A., whose real name is Mathangi [sic] Arulpragasam, to choose the latter as the album's official name." Three things
    • Why is there a [sic] there?
      • It was meant to reflect the fact that her name is not spelt exactly the same as the album title, but I guess it's no big deal so I removed it..... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 15:43, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • M.I.A. picking the album's title should be in "background and recording", not "release and artwork" IMO.
    • The cited Fact source does not explicitly state that M.I.A. chose Matangi as the title because it matches her real name. Other sources say she does, however, so replace the Fact one.
  • I have done copyediting ( diff) on the article to address sentence length, verbose wording, active voice, and flow and cohesion of paragraphs. I added some information I found from the currently cited sources as well. Please feel free to make further amendments to these edits or revert some of them if you find them unhelpful.

My stance on the article's readiness for the bronze star remains, although I am glad to see swift progress. :) ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
12:25, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ Your Power: just as an update, I believe the only things outstanding are adding some more about lyrical themes and sorting out the archive links. I tried running the IABot to archive the existing sources but it didn't do anything, don't know if I am doing something wrong......? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ ChrisTheDude: it tends to do that for me as well. Unfortunately it seems that someone would have to do the archiving manually. Anyways, I have done another round of copyediting+addition of new content in light of the recent additions you made to the article. As always feel free to revert ones with which you disagree. With that, some more comments - I am really sorry that my review has dragged this far!
  • "Her fans gave her two ideas" the tweet by itself seems to indicate it's the other direction?
  • I doubt PopCrush is a high-quality source to use here, which means that the bit about the "car imagery" (which that source supports) can be cut
  • The "Reviewing the album track by track..." line is barely understandable and IMO does not add anything of value to the article.
  • Re. third paragraph of reception section: again, the use of "noted" here is discouraged. Also I have difficulty tracking what that sentence is supposed to mean.
That should be all, hopefully Face-smile.svg Appreciate all the effort undertaken to tidy up this article. A bit of a tangent, but I've seen a lot of memes with the caption "live fast die young bad girls do it well" within the past two years, and it only occurred to me where that line came from after reading this article. Huh. The more you know. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
13:51, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
All of those last few points addressed -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 22:02, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Your Power: I think I have addressed every point above to the best of my ability, would you be able to re-visit.....? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 09:03, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Hi @ ChrisTheDude - you really worked your butt off with this article, wow! You deserve your 10s - the article has improved significantly compared to when I first arrived here! The only thing holding back a support from me is this bit from the lead: " 'Bad Girls' ... became one of M.I.A.'s most successful singles." That requires explicit attribution somewhere in the prose and I just don't see it. As much as I want to see the archived versions of the source links, I understand that it is beyond the scope of my intended prose review; thus it won't really stop me from supporting once the last concern is addressed. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
05:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Your Power: - I just deleted that claim as upon reflection I think it was questionable (it was only her fourth biggest hit in the UK, for example) and re-worked the sentence -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 07:35, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Alright, that last pressing concern has been addressed! After a lot of reading and commenting I am confident to say I can now support this article based on the prose quality and comprehensiveness. Nice work! Hope to see you work on more music articles soon; love to see you branching out into new topics. Face-smile.svg ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
07:46, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ Your Power: thanks for your support. Just to note, while I haven't done much related to music here at FAC, over at FLC I have successfully promoted over 80 music-related lists :-) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 07:49, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
DAMN. When I tell you my jaw dropped upon seeing that number... I see notifs about your FLs passing in places like the WP:SIGNPOST, but I was not aware you've been doing that for a while. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
07:53, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Japanese fire-bellied newt

Nominator(s): An anonymous username, not my real name ( talk) 01:22, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about a species of newt endemic to Japan. It is found throughout much of the archipelago, in a wide range of habitats. It is rated as near-threatened, and its population is at risk of capture for the pet trade and human development. This is my first FAC nomination, so please forgive my inexperience. This was previously successfully nominated for GA status, and both before and during the review, I went to great lengths to include as much relevant information and context as possible. An anonymous username, not my real name ( talk) 01:22, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Coordinator note: Just flagging up that as a first-time nomination this will need a spot check for source to text fidelity. Gog the Mild ( talk) 12:45, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • Suggest adding alt text
Is it better now? An anonymous username, not my real name ( talk) 11:39, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:Brehms_Tierleben._Allgemeine_kunde_des_Tierreichs_(1911)_(20226567219).jpg: is a more specific tag available? Nikkimaria ( talk) 04:13, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The uploader states that it is public domain, but not on what grounds. What would your suggestion be? An anonymous username, not my real name ( talk) 11:39, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The artist's name (Josef Fleischmann) can be seen in the lower right, and he appeared to have died in 1925 [3], making this public domain, as he died more than 70 years ago and it was published in Europe. So you should add the same tag as here: [4] FunkMonk ( talk) 12:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Done. An anonymous username, not my real name ( talk) 13:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Can't see a saved edit, so added [5] it myself. FunkMonk ( talk) 19:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you, I could've sworn it saved. An anonymous username, not my real name ( talk) 21:48, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Henni147

This is my first FAC review for an article in the biology category, so it's a bit of uncharged territory for me, but I'd like to leave some comments. As a non-specialist, I can attest that the article is reader-friendly and easy to understand.

  • Structure: It might be smart to make the headings and section order uniform with this article about the Alpine newt, which already has featured status. This would improve the layout consistency across Wikipedia.
That's something I would normally wholeheartedly support, but I think they are already quite similar, and making them more similar might break up the article more than necessary. As for the heading names, throughout animal articles in general, "Lifecycle and behaviour" is much less standard than "Behavior and ecology", same goes for "Captivity" vs "In captivity" and "Threats and conservation" vs "Conservation". If anything, the other article should be changed. Still, I rearranged the lead to resemble that of the other article more.
  • Bundling of sub-sections: This is rather a matter of taste, but I prefer to merge sub-sections that consist of only one short paragraph to one proper section. This reduces the amount of empty space around the text, which is crucial for print versions of the article.
Yes, that was brought up during the GA review. I've trimmed it even further, so hopefully that's good enough (let me know if you would recommend even more).
  • Abbreviations: In scientific and encyclopedic articles, it is generally discouraged to use abbreviations at the beginning of a sentence like "C." at the beginning of the section "Evolution and hybridization". If possible, I recommend to rephrase those sentences a bit. Also, according to MOS:1STOCC, special terms should be introduced in the full version at their first occurrence like "DVM". Better write here: Doctor of Veterinary Medicine Lianne McLeod described them as "low-maintenance", noting that captive newts enjoy bloodworms, ...
I changed it as you suggested for both instances, so it should be okay.
  • Linking: According to MOS:OVERLINK, common words like "forest" or "Japan" shouldn't be linked. However, I would place a link to the article habitat in the lead, which is a biological term and may not be known by casual readers. Also, try to avoid side-by-side links like " newt endemic" in the first sentence of the lead.
I removed links from some simple words, and added one to habitat. I also removed the link to newt, since rewording to keep it and the nearby link separate would have looked strange.
  • Images: All images need alternative texts for the accessbility with screenreaders. If the caption sufficiently describes the image, add |alt=refer to caption. Also, change the parameter image: to File: and remove fixed image sizes like the "250px" from the following image:
    [[image:Cynops pyrrhogaster (under s4).jpg|thumb|right|250px|Japanese fire-belled newt on its back, with the bright red ventral region clearly visible]]
Done (all of the current captions should work as alt text, so I used them.)
  • Referencing: Online sources should be archived with the Wayback Machine or a comparable service. I can help with that if needed. Otherwise, the use of inline citations and sourcing looks good. According to Earwig's copyvio detector, there is no serious copy-violation of text (3.8% similarity at max). I yet have to take a closer look at the citation of print sources.
I thought IABot could do that automatically, but it hasn't been working for me. I may require assistance. It might've been because I was shy of my thousandth edit, which I just achieved. It worked now.

That's it from me at first look. I may give a more detailed feedback about single sections and citations later, but this will take a bit more time. Overall, the article looks promising and I think that with some adjustments it has the potential to be promoted for FAC. Good job. Henni147 ( talk) 10:24, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Henni147 thank you very much. I've replied to all your comments. An anonymous username, not my real name 22:39, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Excellent. Thank you very much for your detailed comments and quick adjustments! The article structure looks much better already, and if you say that these headings are more the standard, then I fully support to keep them as they are. I will take a closer look at the changes later. Henni147 ( talk) 08:45, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review. I will make copy edits as I go. If you are unhappy with any, could you discuss them here? Thanks.

  • "They are 8 to 15 cm (3.1 to 5.9 in) long." Perhaps 'Adults are ...'?
Done.
Could I bring your attention to "Do not use graphics or complex templates on FAC nomination pages" followed by the reasons why at the top of the FAC main page. Just indent your response and the reviewer will pick it up. Thanks. :-) Gog the Mild ( talk) 00:02, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you for enlightening me. I fixed it. An anonymous username, not my real name 00:51, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "They readily consumed TTX-laced bloodworms when offered, not showing any symptoms after ingesting the poison". is it known if they were subsequently found to contain tetrodotoxin?
I'm a little confused. Could you rephrase?
It seems that it has been established that newts who did not consume TTX contained little or none of it. You report that this experiment establishes that they will consume TTX and not show ill effects. Does the TTX then stay in their system? The point being that this would be a strong indicator that the hypothesis that TTX in the newts all comes from diet is correct.
I added not only that, but further details on the results of the experiment that should bring everything together,
  • "especially the major ones". Er, what does "especially" actually mean in this context?
As opposed to Japan's smaller islands, some of which they are not present on. Could you suggest a reword?
'including all of the major ones'.
That doesn't completely work, as they are absent from Hokkaido (which may or may not be part of Mainland Japan depending on how it's defined), so I removed it entirely in favor of specific islands (Honshu, Shikoku, and Kyushu). I also tweaked a similar statement in the body.
  • "and potentially the eggs of their own species." Why "potentially"? This is not used in the main article.
I didn't want to give it undue weight by implying that it was a particularly major food source (as it might appear that way due to how the lead is worded). However, I suppose there's no real alternative to your suggestion for consistency's sake, so I did it.
  • "before splitting into four distinct varieties throughout its range". Do you mean that? Or does each variety occupy a different range?
I mean that the range of the species can be divided into the ranges of four groups that all belong to that species. I don't particularly see a need to change this one, as the MOS usually allows mildly vague wording in the lead, which can then be fully explained in the body.
There is a difference between vague and misleading. How would you feel about 'before splitting into four distinct varieties each with a mostly separate range' or similar?
That's a very good suggestion. I used that.
  • "although officially, all four varieties compose a single species." Perhaps 'Although all four are considered to compose a single species"?
The study was not entirely clear, but it suggested that the clades may be different species, even though they are taxonomically recognized as being a single one. I reworded it to be less ambiguous while still keeping the original message.
  • "Currently, their population on a decline". Missing word(s)
Suggestion?
'Currently, their population is on a decline' perhaps. A verb is always useful ;-) .
Ohhhh, I did not notice the word you were talking about at first. Thanks, I fixed it.
  • "may in fact belong to a different genus." Do we need "in fact"? I mean, might a reader otherwise suppose it wasn't a fact?
Removed
  • "recognizes sixteen total synonyms for Cynops pyrrhogaster." Delete "total".
Done
  • Could "clade" be linked at first mention.
Done
  • "As time progressed". Consider → 'Later'.
I don't want to suggest they all split at once, which the word "later" seems to do. Any possible alternatives?
Ah. Point taken. Let me think on. If I don't get back to you, leave it as it is.
  • "The northern diverged first, at around 9.68 million years ago, then the central (around 8.23 MYA), then finally the southern and western (around 4.05 MYA)". Why are the last two dates in brackets and the first not?
Removed from all.
  • "to form a hybrid zone". Perhaps a very brief explanation of what this is? (Per MOS:NOFORCELINK: "Do use a link wherever appropriate, but as far as possible do not force a reader to use that link to understand the sentence. The text needs to make sense to readers who cannot follow links.")
Done
Done
  • "and requires immediate protection". Non-NPOV value judgement. Consider rephrasing.
Done
  • Section headers: consider deleting "and hybridization" and "Atsumi-Chita variant".
I was hesitant, but it actually looks quite nice. Done.
Done.
  • "Smaller juveniles have ..." All of them, or just those from the smaller islands.
The linked source happens to be about a small island population, but its observations appear to apply to all populations. I moved several things around for better clarity.
  • Why is "ventral region" defined inline at the second mention, rather than the first.
Moved.
  • "vomeropalatine". Needs defining or explaining.
It's a rather odd term that I can't find a good definition for, but it should be better now.
  • "A smooth ridge runs from their nape to their tail. It is 8 to 15 cm (3.1 to 5.9 in) long." In the lead you state that this is the total body length, not the length of the ridge. Is the range given for the napes of females or all specimens? If it is for adults, this needs stating.
I think there was some confusion here, but I've fixed it in the article.
  • "Its range has a small amount of overlap". Does "Its" refer to the northern or the central clade?
Fixed.
  • "forests, grasslands, shrublands, wetlands, lakes, marshes, and cultivated environments." The Wikilinks seem a little random. Are you assuming that a reader will not understand what a marsh is, but will be familiar with a grassland?
Would you prefer I eliminate the current ones or add more?
I am a fan of WP:OVERLINK. And suspect that most readers can work out what "marshes" etc are.
Done.
  • Gray, 1850; add the oclc. (3183646) And if this is a book, the title should be in title case.
Done.
  • Boie, 1827; ditto. (727216017)
Done.
  • References: if works are in foreign languages, these should be specified.
Tschudi appeared to be the only instance of an unspecified foreign language work, so I corrected that.
  • Tschudi: oclc. (964903266)
Done.

More to follow. Gog the Mild ( talk) 20:15, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Gog the Mild, excellent suggestions. I have implemented all except a few I would like your recommendation on. I will get to your newer set soon. An anonymous username, not my real name 23:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "fertilized one-by-one via the spermatophores they carry." Suggest "via" → 'from'.
Done.
  • "in a full breeding season." Suggest deleting "full".
Done.
  • "or they will drown". Suggest deleting "will".
Done.
  • "In captive settings, they are known to readily eat mosquito larvae, brine shrimp, earthworms, and each other." Why is this under "life cycle" and not "Diet"?
Moved.
  • "changes in the small animals around the ponds that they dwell in." Around the ponds, or in them?
The source actually says "in and around", I just noticed. Fixed it.
  • "with one example of a potential serpentine predator being Gloydius blomhoffii." I don't see what this random-looking piece of information adds.
Removed.
  • Link both adaptation and adapted.
Done.

A fine article, I enjoyed it. Gog the Mild ( talk) 22:29, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Good to hear :) I think I've gotten everything. An anonymous username, not my real name 00:51, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Mochida, 2009: all caps titles are not retained when used on Wikipedia.
Done.
  • A stunning debut at FAC. More than happy to support. The first of many nominations I hope. Gog the Mild ( talk) 12:41, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you very much for your support and encouragement. An anonymous username, not my real name 17:07, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Vanamonde

Looking forward to reading this. I will make some minor copyedits along the way, please feel free to contest them. Vanamonde ( Talk) 00:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

  • this source, which you cite, has if I'm not mistaken a more complete phylogeny of the near relatives. Among other things, it shows the non-monophyly of the genus. I suggest using it instead, unless you have a strong reason for using the 2001 study?
  • Independent of the above, I think the caption should include the source.
  • The same source mentions the extreme genetic divergence within the taxon; they stop short of calling them separate species, but this may be worth discussing anyway.
Added a brief mention.
  • The same source also mentions that the islands were likely not isolated from the mainland during the probable spread; suggest including this.
Mentioned it.
  • Suggest moving the fragment about threat status from taxonomy to conservation.
Done.
  • It occurs to me that the infobox image is a lot less clear than some of the others; suggest swapping and/or cropping + scaling up.
An attempt was made, and it looks marginally better, but that's about as good as I can get it.
  • "was thought to be extinct, however it was later revealed" some vagueness here; who thought it extinct, when was it determined to be the same as a different group, and how?
The source doesn't mention exactly who first thought it was extinct, but I added everything else.
  • It is common to report SVL in reptiles, in addition to or in place of full body length, is it not? It would be nice to have if available.
I found some interesting information on that, which I included.
  • "It has the northernmost range of any Cynops species" This is probably okay, but given the non-monophyly of the genus, begs the question if this is still true for the clade including all members.
According to the source, the other species are all found in either southern China or the Ryukyu Islands, so it would be true for all members. I added this.
  • Section on reproduction has some information on size that may be better placed in the description.
It's a passing mention that is now included in the description anyway thanks to my other changes. Since the information around it is about maturation, which is relevant to life cycle, I think it's best to keep it.
  • Fascinating information on antipredator behavior. If showing the belly is not viable on the mainland, what do they do instead?
Unfortunately, the source doesn't really say. The best I can find is this sentence: " This fatal mistake was often observed in laboratory trials; newts that reacted to a mammalian predator with the immobile display lost the opportunity to escape and were killed". This would suggest that escaping is the usual alternative, but it doesn't mention them actually doing so.
  • "preventing predation by both birds and mammals" that isn't accurate, is it. Toxins don't prevent predation, they make predation harmful, discouraging it over longer timescales.
Reworded.
  • The "research" section strikes me as somewhat haphazard at the moment. I suggest 1) opening with the paragraph about them as model organisms, and 2) including in each paragraph the significance of that particular research (for instance, why are they a model organism? to study regeneration, presumably, but you never know).
Implemented, although you should probably take a look to make sure it's as you envisioned.
  • I suggest, though this isn't needed, that "in captivity" and "research" be combined; elements of the former topic are already included in the latter, and they are both short. You could call it "interaction with humans" or similar, and there is ample precedent for such sections in FAs.
That is a very good idea. I did so.

That's it for me for this round. This is an admirable effort, and I expect to support eventually. I do wonder if the source material has been mined completely; see comments above, this source, and these, which I just found. Many of the scholarly articles are admittedly dense, and if they're only using the newt as a model organism their utility here is likely to be limited; but I suggest examining the heavyweight studies once again. Vanamonde ( Talk) 00:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Replied to all comments. I will look into adding extra sources if you can think of any important information that's missing. An anonymous username, not my real name 02:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I forgot to mention, but I've requested a cladogram be made for the first point, which I'm waiting on currently. An anonymous username, not my real name 02:52, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Source spotcheck by LittleJerry I looked through a few sources and they support the text. But I made a few changes in regards to paraphasing. Remember to as use little of the same words as the sources as you can, but I'll leave it for others to comment on. LittleJerry ( talk) 16:51, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts

Nominator(s): JOE BRO 64 14:16, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

What do you get when you throw a niche-but-beloved late '90s franchise, cars, Legos, and infuriated fanboys into a blender? You get Rare's misguided masterpiece, Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts. This honest-to-God attempt to innovate in a genre that'd stagnated outside of Mario ultimately did more to kill the series it was attempting to resurrect than it did to, well, resurrect it, but it's seen a bit of a renaissance in recent years thanks to its inclusion in Rare Replay. Nowadays, you're more likely to hear about how it was unfairly maligned and innovative, offering a massive amount of constructive freedom a full three years before Minecraft's proper release.

This article has been a GA for several years, but I recently gave it a major overhaul as part of a personal project I've started and I believe it's the most comprehensive resource for the game on the internet. I hope you enjoy the article! JOE BRO 64 14:16, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comment from DecafPotato

Hello. I am not able to perform the FA review, but St Mary's Street, Tenby - geograph.org.uk - 873512.jpg and File:Saint-Malo remparts 001.JPG are missing alt text. Otherwise, it looks good, and good luck with the FA! DecafPotato ( talk) 19:47, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

DecafPotato, there is alt text for those images already present. Not sure why it isn't showing up in the toolbox? EDIT: fixed it, just had to separate the two alts. JOE BRO 64 01:30, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I went to try splitting the alt text, and you already did it. Nice. The issue might be something to do with the multiple image template? Idk. DecafPotato ( talk) 01:35, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • Don't use fixed px size
  • The FURs for File:Banjo-Kazooie_Nuts_and_Bolts_gameplay.jpg and File:Banjo-Kazooie,_Nuts_%26_Bolts_gameplay_2.jpg are largely identical - if multiple non-free screenshots are to be included, each needs a stronger justification
  • File:Grant_Kirkhope.png: is there no non-filtered image available? Nikkimaria ( talk) 04:19, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • Unfortunately, no—that's the only free-use picture of Kirkhope available. JOE BRO 64 14:45, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

@ Nikkimaria: responded above, thank you for the image review! JOE BRO 64 14:45, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comment from SnowFire

This is not a full review and I don't intend it to become one... but as a passerby comment... I'm skeptical of the way the article currently presents the critical reassessment as if it was more broadly-supported than it really seems to be. I would tentatively suggest either rephrasing such claims to be more along the lines of "Critical reappraisals from Journalist X, Y, and Z" think Nuts & Bolts was actually awesome, rather than suggesting that this opinion was uncontroversially shared. That or finding stronger sources suggesting that such a positive reappraisement really is more widespread than I get the impression from the linked sources. For example, the 2020 XBox magazine retrospective calls it "daring, divisive" in its subheader, suggesting that the division hasn't gone away, along with "often seen as the black sheep of the franchise," suggesting that not everyone is as positive as Mayles. The Polygon list on Rare Replay in 2015 does indeed rank Nuts & Bolts highly, yes, but still behind the original Banjo-Kazooie, which weakens the case for other lines like "Retrospective reviewers have reappraised it as the best Banjo-Kazooie game". Put another way, for other series with even more reviews, it's comparatively easy to find some journalist, somewhere, saying that any given Final Fantasy or Halo or Zelda game is the best one. But we shouldn't claim that each game in these other series is considered the best one in the series in each one's own individual game article by citing the journalists who liked This Specific Version the most. It's fine to say "Journalists X and Y call it the best game in the series;" saying that "reviewers" in general have reappraised it as such probably requires a stronger analysis (whether via having a long footnote detailing critical opinions, or via an outright meta-source RS that analyzes the matter).

On a more minor note, I think you linked the wrong reference in "Influence" - you've referenced the contemporary GamesRadar+ 2008 review, which certainly does not talk about alleged influence on 2015 games! (Going to presume it was really the "misunderstood gem" GamesRadar article.)

Finally, and this is very much a personal preference item - I know editors who swear by the reverse - but I'm not a huge fan of talking about publications rather than game journalists. This can make sense for publications with very strong editorial views that overwhelm the individual author (e.g. Nintendo Power) but this isn't true for most publications - Kotaku is not a hive mind, etc. I'd be more inclined to credit journalists rather than publications for opinions, or both if you don't mind being wordy. But this is optional. SnowFire ( talk) 19:39, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Hi SnowFire, I did a good amount of work on the lede and retrospective assessments subsection to address this. Let me know what you think.
Thanks for catching that GamesRadar+ ref error—I've fixed it.
As for publications vs. journalists: I see where you're coming from. It's my personal preference to use publication names over journalists (unless the journalist is notable on Wikipedia, like Jim Sterling or Jason Schreier) because journalists are usually speaking on behalf of their publications in reviews and retrospectives, unless otherwise noted. I also think it's a little easier for readers to follow with publication names rather than people's names. I can still take a stab at using journalist names if you'd like. JOE BRO 64 00:57, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thanks, I believe it is an improvement to stick with "Some" before "retrospective reviewers". I consider my concern met on this, for the closer.
On attributing journalists vs. magazines - like I said, I consider this a stylistic concern up to you, so more of an "FYI" thing. I'll defer to your knowledge on this, but the one case where I'd definitely recommend citing journalists rather than publications unconditionally is if a single publication has published notably inconsistent reviews (unsure if that's true of any of the currently cited sources on Nuts & Bolts). For one famous example, IGN graded God Hand a 3/10, "Awful" in 2006 and also published a retrospective review saying that it was AMAZING in all capital letters in 2019. That wasn't a case of some combined entity called "IGN" having muddled thoughts, but rather just the journalist who wrote the original review having a different take from a separate journalist writing a decade later, and so attributing the specific journalist rather than IGN would be important in such a case of contrasting reviews. SnowFire ( talk) 01:28, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Artemy Vedel

Nominator(s): Amitchell125 ( talk) 07:44, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

This article is about a Ukrainian composer, little known outside his own country, who composed mainly liturgical works based on Ukrainian folk melodies, and who made an important contribution in the music history of Ukraine. The article received peer review comments from Gerda Arendt and Tim riley. All feedback comments would be, as always, much appreciated. Amitchell125 ( talk) 07:44, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments Support from Tim riley

I suggested at PR that a section on recordings could be added. I still think it would be a useful addition, but a quick check on existing life-and-works FAs about composers shows that some, including such big fish as Mahler and Mendelssohn, have been elevated to FA without one, and so it must I think be accepted that the lack of one here is not cause for objection on grounds of FA criterion 1b (comprehensiveness).

@ Tim riley: I need to be pointed in the right direction with this one. There lots of recordings of Vedel's music that could be listed, but the information about them all comes from commercial websites, and there doesn't seem to be any reliable source that provides the information I need. The detailed WorldCat information available is already in the article's Authority Control, so there's not need to duplicate it higher up. Thoughts? Amitchell125 ( talk) 19:27, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

A few minor comments on other points:

  • I assume the italicised sentence in the second para of the lead is inadvertent?
Yes, now sorted. Amitchell125 ( talk) 11:32, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • There is a double full stop at the end of the lead.
Sorted. Amitchell125 ( talk) 11:33, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • In the last para of the Imprisonment and death section, in "There was uncertainty about exactly when Vedel died ... The cause of Vedel's death ..." the second mention of Vedel's name could with advantage be replaced by a pronoun.
Agreed, done. Amitchell125 ( talk) 11:34, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • In the Musical style section "Musicologists consider Vedel ... " is rather a sweeping assertion. The authors of the cited article so consider him, but that is not really enough to justify the implication of unanimity here.
Implication now gone. Amitchell125 ( talk) 11:38, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • The last sentence is something of an anticlimax: "In 2016 the Ukrainian government announced its intention to commemorate the 250th anniversary of Vedel's birth in 2017". The reader may be forgiven for asking "And did it? How?" If you don't know and can't find out I think you should either say so or omit the existing sentence.
I think I've spent more time looking for how his anniversary was commemorated than was actually spent commemorating it. Sentence deleted accordingly. Amitchell125 ( talk) 12:15, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I'll look in again with a view to supporting. – Tim riley talk 10:32, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thanks for these comments Tim, and I'll do some research on recordings, with a view to adding to the article if possible. Amitchell125 ( talk) 10:42, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
If the FAC coordinators are happy for me to contribute to the article having already supported its elevation ( Ian, Gog or colleagues, what say you?) I shall be happy to run up a Recordings section for your consideration. Alternatively, if you fancy trying your hand at it, follow the link to WorldCat I put in my postscript to my comments at the peer review. Tim riley talk 19:37, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Of course, not a problem. Go for it. Gog the Mild ( talk) 20:22, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you, Gog. I'll run up a draft section on recordings in the next day or so on the usual lines, for the nominator's consideration. Tim riley talk 22:45, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Alas having waded through the numerous entries in WorldCat for recordings of music by Vedel I find they mostly consist of multiple reissues of two recordings of a couple of pieces. I can't find anything like enough to base a Recordings section on, and I really must apologise for supposing there would be. Sorry, everyone, and I unconditionally withdraw the suggestion that we can have a Recordings section at all. Tim riley talk 22:14, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
After a final read-through I am happy to add my support. Good prose, clear exposition, evidently balanced and well sourced. The illustrations are no doubt as good as possible for this out-of-the-way subject. The article seems to me to meet the FA criteria. Tim riley talk 22:01, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Support from Gerda

I am happy with the changes made during the PR and support. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 11:04, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • Suggest adding alt text
Done. Amitchell125 ( talk) 08:38, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:Артемвй_Ведель,_меморіальна_дошка.JPG: as Ukraine does not have freedom of panorama, this needs a tag for the original work. Similarly File:Dvoeznamennik_17c_GIM.jpg, File:Дніпрові_кручі_у_Києві.jpg
  • File:Артемвй_Ведель,_меморіальна_дошка.JPG is of a modern sculpture, which appears to mean the image cannot be used. Did you have a particular tag in mind?
2008. ( citation used in article). Did you have a particular tag in mind?
No - I agree without more information it seems unlikely the sculpture is PD. Nikkimaria ( talk) 02:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Image removed, it's place now taken by the commemorative stamp. Amitchell125 ( talk) 21:46, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
File:Дніпрові кручі у Києві.jpg - own work by Alina Vozna, tagged accordingly.
The own work tag covers the photo - what is missing is something for the architecture. Nikkimaria ( talk) 02:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Nikkimaria: Understood, but as the buildings date from the 11th-18th centuries. I, is there a specific tag available? I have searched for the correct PD tag for old buildings (including anything in photographs in FA architecture articles), without any success. Please, what is the correct tag I have to use? Amitchell125 ( talk) 21:38, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
If you can confirm that all of the architecture pictured was erected in the 18th century or earlier, then {{ PD-US-expired}} would work. Nikkimaria ( talk) 01:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Done. Amitchell125 ( talk) 09:16, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
File:Dvoeznamennik_17c_GIM.jpg - now done. Amitchell125 ( talk) 08:13, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:Pre-1811_map_of_Podil_(Kyiv)_-_cropped.svg: which rationale is believed to apply for Ukrainian status, and what is the status of the original work in the US?
Not sure, image removed. Amitchell125 ( talk) 07:41, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:Kharkov's_Collegium_XVIII-XIX.jpg needs a US tag
Done. Amitchell125 ( talk) 07:20, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Where was this first published? Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:09, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Early 19th 20th century, or earlier. Amitchell125 ( talk) 08:37, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Okay, but where though? Nikkimaria ( talk) 02:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Kharkiv. It was published in the supplement to Dmytro Bahaliy's 2-volume История города Харькова за 250 лет его существования (1655-1905) (History of the City of Kharkov: 250 years of existence (1655-1905)), which was written in the first two decades of the 20th century.
When was that work published? Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:42, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
1912 ( see link). Amitchell125 ( talk) 10:32, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:Кирилівський_монастир_на_мал._Ф._Солнцева,_1843.jpg is incorrectly tagged, as is File:Vedel_-_manuscript_of_Concert_No._12_(first_page).jpg
Sorted. Amitchell125 ( talk) 07:19, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
For the former, the date given in the description is both more recent than 100 years ago and after 1927 - is that not accurate? If no, when and where was this first published, and what is the author's date of death? Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:09, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
The artist, Fedor Solntsev, died in 1892. I have corrected the date given on the WikiCommons page, as 1943 is an error. The tag is (I believe) correct. Amitchell125 ( talk) 08:51, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
When and where was it first published? Nikkimaria ( talk) 02:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
It's a painting, so I'm unsure if a publication date (other than 1843, the date it was painted, as stated on the WikiCommons page) is appropriate. Also, I don't think the place it was painted is known, but it is likely to have been somewhere associated with the artist (e.g. his studio), and I don't think this information is relevant. Am I incorrect?
You are correct - what we care about is publication, as defined here. Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:42, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Nikkimaria: I may have found what was needed— this link states that the watercolour appeared in an 1843 publication, now held in the V. G. Zabolotny State Scientific Architectural and Construction Library in Kyiv. I've amended the text in WikiCommons to explain this. Amitchell125 ( talk) 09:43, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:Кошиць_Олександр.jpg needs a US tag and author date of death
Tag sorted, the author is unknown, so I have put this. Amitchell125 ( talk) 07:05, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Where was this first published? Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:09, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
In Kyiv, then part of the Russian Empire. Koshetz is wearing his seminary clothes, so it would have been taken there at the time he was a student. Amitchell125 ( talk) 08:59, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
That helps to identify when the image was created, but we need to determine publication in order to assess US status. Is that known? Nikkimaria ( talk) 02:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I've looked hard, but nothing has come up, so for the moment the publication date is not known. Amitchell125 ( talk) 21:00, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Okay, what is the first publication that has been identified? Nikkimaria ( talk) 01:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I have not been able to find any examples of books that includes the photograph, only online examples, as listed in WikiCommons. Amitchell125 ( talk) 17:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Okay. The current tagging is based on the work being published before 1917 - if we can't demonstrate that, the tag will need to be changed to something that can be supported. Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:42, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
As I don't know which tag you might be referring to, I've replaced the image with one that I believe has no issues ( this), although I would have preferred to use the one of him as a younger man. Did you have a specific tag in mind? Amitchell125 ( talk) 09:26, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Hi Nikki, Amitchell, is this the only outstanding image query? Can we resolve, if we haven't already? Cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 08:12, 30 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:UA055-17.jpg: the Ukrainian tag states coins and banknotes are PD, but not stamps. Nikkimaria ( talk) 04:26, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Is c:Commons:Copyright_rules_by_territory/Ukraine#Stamps incorrect? Amitchell125 ( talk) 06:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Hm. Probably worth amending the tag's language to reflect the information provided there. Nikkimaria ( talk) 03:09, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I can try and get that done, but it's not something that needs to be done for this nomination, is it? Amitchell125 ( talk) 09:04, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
No. Nikkimaria ( talk) 02:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by Support from Smerus

Nice article - but a couple of points:

a) the lead seems to me rather 'top-heavy' and over-detailed - you may want to consider thinning it out. Do we need, for example, Koshetz's comment on the difficulty of performance quoted twice in the article?

Agreed - lead section trimmed down a bit. Amitchell125 ( talk) 14:52, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

b) Where you are sourcing articles/websites in Ukrainian, you should make it clear in the citation that the original is in Ukrainian, and, most important of all, you must check your translations. Maybe you are using Google Translate? As examples

1) 'ТЕЛЕПЕРЕДАЧА «ОЧИМА КУЛЬТУРИ». № 28. НЕСУСВІТНІЙ АРТЕМ ВЕДЕЛЬ' does not translate as ' "Television "through the eyes of culture" – No 28 Non-world Artem Knowledge" but as ' "TV show "Through the Eyes of Culture" – No 28 The unworldly Artem Vedel"
2) "Ведель Артем Лук'янович – композитор, диригент, співак, скрипаль" does not translate as "Artem Lukyanovich in charge: composer, conductor, singer, violinist" but as (in English standard name order) "Artem Lukyanovich Vedel: composer, conductor, singer, violinist"

Please go through your sources and check the translations are accurate - otherwise this article cannot merit FA status.

Best, -- Smerus ( talk) 11:02, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Ouch! I thought I'd checked these, I have a friend who will help with this, I'll let you know when the Ukrainian has been re-checked. Amitchell125 ( talk) 15:02, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Citations in other languages all noted. Amitchell125 ( talk) 19:10, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
@ Smerus: Corrections to translations from other languages into English have been done—with thanks to Ата to helping here. Amitchell125 ( talk) 11:52, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Great, I am therefore happy to support the article as FA. -- Smerus ( talk) 13:57, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Source review – Pending

Finding little to say—content wise—I feel I can best help here with a source review. Will do soon. Aza24 (talk) 22:29, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Formatting
  • I tweaked a few things
  • We sure its not transliterated as "Ihor"? e.g. Ihor Sonevytsky
I've changed any Igors into Ihor for Sonevytsky. There are Russians called Ihor and Ukrainians called Igor—and sometimes I have found both versions of the name for the same person—so it's not always clear what the transliteration should be. I'll do some double checking, and make changes if needed. Amitchell125 ( talk) 13:09, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Why no title case for the English title of Tylyk 2018?
Sorted. Amitchell125 ( talk) 13:12, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Reliability
  • No issues
Verifiability
  • I was unable to find an OCLC or any other identifier for Potemkin, and assume you don't know of one?
Yes, I looked in vain as well. Amitchell125 ( talk) 12:58, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • For FAC coords: I have not done formal spot checks, but some were done by Smerus above & the nom has a history of FAs. Aza24 (talk) 22:44, 28 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Your Power

Nominator(s): ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
09:42, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
Reply[ reply]

"Try not to abuse your power / I know we didn't choose to change / You might not wanna lose your power / but power isn't pain."

Content warning - this article is about a song dealing with abuse of all kinds. Most importantly, sexual abuse - there is a focus on older men who sexually exploit young women. The lyrics are simple, yet its power lies in its message's simplicity. It's very political (many critics drew connections to #MeToo), but it's also personal (it references Eilish's own experiences with abuse as a child), highlighting the universality of power imbalances. It was considered one of the best songs of 2021, as well as one of Eilish's best songs. Read the article and you will see why!

Now for the meta-commentary - this is the third Billie Eilish-related article I have taken to FAC and fourth overall! This song also is where I got my username, and is one of my favourite songs by her. "Your Power" holds a special place in my heart, and to see its article grow so much has been extremely cool :D Can't wait for what you think. ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
09:42, 12 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Media review by Sammi Brie

There are four freely licensed images, all with CC licenses or cropped from CC licenses, and album art with an NFUR. All images have adequate alt text. There is also a 15-second song sample with NFUR.

This article passes on media review. Sammi Brie (she/her •  tc) 06:31, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thank you for the prompt review on the audio + photos, @ Sammi Brie :) ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
12:16, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments by FrB.TG

  • "In it, she sings alone" - in it doesn't sound very encyclopedic.
    • How so? "it" refers to the video, i.e. "in the video". Nothing seems off about it.
  • Finneas is over-linked in the infobox. I suppose it might have been done intentionally because it does not match his real (full) name in the songwriting credits.
    • You would be correct in that assumption
  • "Eilish revealed" - I suggest not using words like reveal as it has an unencyclopedic, suspense-dissolving effect.
    • Changed wording
  • "Set for release 3 months later, on July 30" -> "Released (three months later) on July 30". Three months later in parenthesis because I think you could even leave that part out but it's optional.
    • Removed "July 30" instead of "three months later" to avoid overwhelming readers with specific dates. I kept "set for release" because it maintains the section's chronology better than saying "released on July 30" - we'd be jumping to April 27 then weeeeeks later to July 30 then baaaack again to April 28 in that case. By saying "set for release" we can just easily gloss over that future date, which is better because the album's actual release is irrelevant for this article about a song.
  • "She talked to the interviewer, Laura Snapes, about how her life had greatly changed since she was a child, the negative aspects of fame, and her struggles with self-acceptance." This reads rather awkwardly because three things are listed; the first one contains a verb but the rest don't ("talked about how her life changed..., the negative aspects...").
    • The list has been modified to fix the parallelism
  • Music and lyrics section lists the song as a folk ballad but the infobox only folk. I suggest specifying it in the infobox.
    • "Ballad" is not a genre, which is why the infobox says only folk.
  • "stripped-back" is rather informal. If it was used like that in the source(s), I suggest using it in quotes.
    • Changed wording
  • "Other critics compared it to songs by the band America[34] or singer Phoebe Bridgers" - why not and instead of or?
    • Fair enough, that's better
  • "She sings about being gaslit" - gaslighting is colloquial.
    • Removed the word

More soon. FrB.TG ( talk) 12:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thanks for taking this FAC, @ FrB.TG! Glad to come across you in enwiki again. And congrats on getting Alejandro (song) promoted - seems like getting Fame Monster song articles the bronze star has become your long-term project in the encyclopedia? If so, I wish you well in the endeavour Face-smile.svg ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
13:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Thank you. Although that is was the plan, I'm not sure how much longer I can keep up. For one thing, I don't have some of the resources to access restricted sources that I once had. For another, I don't have that much time for such an ambitious endeavor. -FrB
  • "Your Power" has received accolades for its lyricism. I would get rid of the has as it's unlikely the song will win any more awards at this point.
    • Extremely good point.
  • She urged viewers to "protect our young women at all costs", and she reminded them
    • Removed
  • "Worldwide, it sold about 8,600 digital copies and was streamed about 64.2 million times." It's not clear if this is first-week sales or overall sales (which I doubt).
    • Considering the presence of "during its opening week" I assumed that folks would get that the entire paragraph was about first-week stats. Though thanks for pointing out this ambiguity. Hopefully that part is clearer.
  • "22.2 million", "9.6 million", "4,500 digital"... - WP:NBSP
    • Added the template
  • "It also entered the top 10 in Australia"
    • I'd prefer keeping the word so that the paragraph's transition from the song's UK chart performance to the song's AU chart performance does not come abruptly.
  • "Like with the music video, she performed the song in the middle of a desert." Was it actually in the middle of a desert or rather a stage that was designed to look like one?
    • The sources say, plainly, that it was in a desert, so I'm confident that they filmed in an actual desert. From watching the video, I don't notice anything in the background that suggests a backdrop.
  • "The venue where the video took place was the Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles" -> "The video took place at the venue Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles"
  • " selected to convey the intimate, Old Hollywood aesthetic that she envisioned" - redundant FrB.TG ( talk) 11:32, 22 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • Addressed both, having trimmed the sentence for concision.

I believe all of your comments above have been addressed, @ FrB.TG. Feel free to read through the article again if you remain unsure of your final stance. Thank you once again for the helpful comments! ^^; ‍ ‍ Your Power 🐍 ‍ 💬 " What did I tell you?"
📝 " Don't get complacent..."
10:41, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Support good work. FrB.TG ( talk) 17:30, 23 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments

  • "At the age of 18, Billie Eilish won five awards at the 62nd Annual Grammy Awards held in 2020. These include Album of the Year for her debut studio album, When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? (2019)" => "At the age of 18, Billie Eilish won five awards at the 62nd Annual Grammy Awards held in 2020, including Album of the Year for her debut studio album, When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? (2019)" (just reads a bit more tightly)
    • Not done; there are 4 almost evenly-spaced commas, and while the sentence does read more tightly, it also feels more unwieldy and hard to read.
  • "Eilish disclosed she would begin" => "Eilish disclosed that she would begin"
  • "Eilish announced the album's title" => "Eilish announced that the album's title"
    • Not done for both. The following sentences read okay without the additional word.
  • "Set for release 3 months later" => "Set for release three months later"
    • Right, mos:num. done
  • "Acoustic guitars serve as the song's instruments" - the credits also mention bass, synths and percussions, so the guitars aren't the only instruments and therefore this should probably be "Acoustic guitars serve as the song's main instruments" or "Acoustic guitars serve as the song's primary instruments"
    • Done - that was an astute catch!
  • "On the singles chart by the Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA)" => "On the singles chart published by the Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA)"
    • Definitely reads better this way
  • Think that's all I got - great work! -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:05, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 07:38, 26 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

I'll copyedit as I read through; please revert and/or complain if I screw anything up.

  • I tweaked a sentence in the lead, but checking the information in the body that supported it I think being cited as 80th best song of the year is hardly an accolade. I doubt I could name as many as 80 songs from most years, and my 80th favourite song of any given year is probably a song I don't like very much. I think I would cut this sort of thing from the lead unless it's a bit more flattering than 80th.
    • Sorry, but I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree. Lots of songs from lots of varying artists and genres come out every year - as such, general music magazines with a large editorial team like Billboard will be covering a lot of ground when it comes to what their staff like. It's a different paradigm from an individual person's rankings (such as your personal ranking), who can only process so many releases. Other reliable publications like the NPR, the LA Times, The Fader, and Pitchfork have done top 100s as well. - Elias
      • Yes, it's certainly not a bad thing to be in those lists, and absolutely it can be mentioned in the article. I'm only saying that putting that in the lead isn't really giving the reader an accurate sense of how the song is received. If the song failed to make a top-ten list somewhere, would you bother to mention that? The other change I made that see you've put back in is "publications like"; can we find another way to put this? Perhaps "such as" instead of "like"? "Like" implies the other publications are of similar status (high quality, national distribution, high readership. The Guardian list had it at 7th of 20 which is good enough to mention. How about "Named the 7th best song of 2021 by The Guardian, the song also appeared on several top 50 and top 100 lists from other publications"? That last is in case you feel it is necessary to mention those lower rankings -- i.e. if we make it clearer the praise is a bit less it isn't misleading. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 18:32, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
        • Oh! You were referring to which rankings were eye-catching enough to be mentioned in the lead. In that case, I more or less see where you're coming from. I will be changing it to "Named one of the best songs of 2021 in Variety and The Guardian" once I get back into my main account at home. Three things: 1) Willman of Variety ranks "Your Power" higher than the list by Billboard, so it seems more appropriate to mention there; 2) I replaced "by" with the preposition "in" - saying "named ... by Variety" feels off because only one critic curated that list; and 3) I re-removed "publications like" to keep things concise and because six lists feels too little a number to warrant a "such as". BTW, I don't deem it necessary to mention the lower rankings since the second paragraph is big enough as it is. - Elias
  • "She debuted the first live rendition": "debuted" is redundant with "first".
    • Used more concise, less confusing wording - Elias
  • I wouldn't bother to link "verses" (in the lead) and "lyrics" would be a bit more natural in any case.
    • Changed
  • "She prefaced...that": "preface" isn't a verb of speech, so you can't use it to report speech in this way. It has to take an object, which is the thing that is being prefaced by something -- e.g. "she prefaced her comments with an introduction".
  • "Its lyrical themes discuss...": a theme doesn't discuss anything; lyrics can discuss things.
  • "struggles that young women face...such as misogyny, power imbalance, and emotional abuse": those things aren't struggles, they're difficulties, or dangers. They can be struggled with.
    • Reworded the relevant parts for all three comments
  • "...revealing its track list and release date. Set for release three months later, it contains...": a bit repetitive re the release date, and any reason not to give the exact date here? And why switch to present tense for "contains"?
    • Re. not listing the exact release date, see above. Also, "contains" is in present tense because saying "the album contained 'Your Power' as a track" implies that the song used to be in the album but was somehow taken off. In other words, "Your Power" will always and forever be a track from the album, so we use present tense. - Elias
      • You make good points, but I think omitting the date feels odd and there might be a way around that be combining the two sentences, which might also let us avoid the tense issue. How about "On April 27, 2021, Eilish announced the album's title was Happier Than Ever, with the release scheduled for XXX XX and "Your Power" as the twelfth song on the track list."? Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 18:15, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
        • Your suggestion reads a little weirdly IMO (e.g. how can an album title be released?), and to put it short I can't think of a way to combine the two in a way that doesn't come across as clunky. Instead of combining stuff, how about I remove mentions of the release date altogether? "On April 27, 2021, Eilish announced the album's title was Happier Than Ever, and she revealed 'Your Power' as the twelfth song on the track list" hits three birds with one stone. It addresses 1) your concerns about the tense change (which IMO is too nitpicky because I think tense changes for a single sentence in a paragraph are okay under certain circumstances), 2) your comment about the repetition, and 3) my opinion that the album's release date is not relevant for this article about the song. - Elias
  • "teased the visuals": I'm sure this is standard usage in some media, but it's a bit journalese -- can we expand it a little?
    • I have a hard time figuring out what you mean when you say "expand it"; I would appreciate suggestions on how to change it
      • I think it means that she released one or images revealing some part of the visual presentation of the album. I'm suggesting a change because this use of "tease" has not yet made it into most dictionaries, though no doubt it will -- it's a modern usage. E.g. see m-w.com or collinsdictionary.com; neither includes this meaning. Some readers won't understand this usage. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 22:47, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
        • I see - I do understand your point that "teased" may sound a little too unencyclopedic in the context of a song. Changed to "previewed"
  • "It is the third single": again why the switch back to present tense -- we were in past tense for the previous sentence? And it sounds a bit odd to say it was the third single, since it was the first one after the announcement. It might read a bit more naturally to say that two previous singles had been included on the track list for the newly announced album.
    • This switch in tense, although somewhat jarring I agree, is necessary. You cannot use past tense to describe facts that will always be true no matter the time frame, as I said above. Don't Smile at Me will always be Billie's debut EP. 1989 was Taylor's fifth studio album the day it was announced, the day it was released, and of course the day you are reading this. - Elias
    • Re. calling it the "third single", when you have multiple music publications 1 2 3 4 calling it the third single (with more calling "My Future" the first instead 1 2 3), you might as well go with this choice especially since it has way simpler wording. Plus, it's not like singles being released to promote an album before that album is announced is an unheard-of thing - " Me!" was released before Lover was announced, for example. - Elias
      Well, you agree the tense change is a little jarring, right? Technically correct statements can still read oddly, and rephrasing so that the problem goes away can make prose read more smoothly. Yes, it's the third single from the album, no question about it. I'm not going to press this point -- you clearly think carefully about your prose and I don't want to spend too much time on stylistic nuances that are deliberate choices on your part, so I'll strike this and another suggestion above where we're having a similar conversation. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 22:47, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Eilish called it one of her favorite songs she had written to date": could shorten this to "Eilish said it was one of her favorite songs" -- "called" seems unnecessary variation, and the rest is surely understood by the reader.
    • I'd prefer we keep the current wording there because by removing those parts, we lose the sense that Eilish is clearly referring to the favorite songs she made. When someone reads about X singer's favorite song, their first thought is not "ooh what's the song they had the most fun making?" - for all we know X singer could have a favorite song (by anyone) that isn't by them. So saying it's one of her favorite songs, no other clarifications attached, can be misleading. We also lose the sense that an artist can continue making new bodies of music and find their new favorite creation in the process. - Elias
      • Yes, fair comment that one wants to make it completely clear she's talking about her own work -- because of the context of the paragraph I thought it was obvious but perhaps you're right that it's safer to be explicit about it. But "to date" is unnecessary; we don't expect her to say her favourite song is one she'll write next year. I still don't like "called it", either. Can we structure the sentence so that a single verb of speech handles both halves, making it possible to just use "said" or "saying"? E.g. "...Eilish said it was one of her favorites among her own songs, and that its candid and personal lyrics..."? Not saying that particular phrasing is the way to go, just that we could splice the halves that way. Having a second verb of speech in the middle slows the sentence down a bit. This is probably another stylistic disagreement, though, so it's fine if you don't want to change it. Though I really think "to date" should go. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:02, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
        • It is probably for the best to remove "to date" given its redundancy. And ftr I do like your suggestion - I'd just remove the comma before "and" per this essay on comma usage. Somewhat tangential, but I re-split the "this is about..." quotation into another sentence - to connect the two in a single sentence implies that the quotation directly demonstrates what is being described in the former half of the sentence. And that quotation does not exactly communicate that she felt vulnerable about the song or that she called it one of her favorite songs she wrote. - Elias
  • Not crazy about "mentioning how its candid..." -- "that" would be better than "how": "how" implies we'll be told the manner in which it made her feel vulnerable, which is not the case. And "mentioning" again seems unnecessary variation -- "said" would work. "Said" is almost invisible and rarely needs to be varied.
    • Agreed with you that "that" is better than "how". Although I won't change "mentioning" to "said" because you already suggested we substitute it for a previous word in the sentence :") - Elias
      • Well, you haven't changed *anything* to "said" yet! But I would argue two uses of "said" in consecutive sentences in just as invisible as one. It absolutely disappears for a reader, which is what you want. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:02, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
        • Oh, I haven't... yeah, you're right! brainz too fried lately Face-tongue.svg - Elias
  • 'She continued: "This is...' I think you could cut "She continued" and just use the colon to connect to the previous sentence.
  • I don't think "worldwide attention" is fully supported by the citations. Yes, she broke a record for Instagram likes, and I'm sure they came from everywhere but North Korea, but a reader isn't going to interpret "worldwide attention" that way. In fact why are the first two sentences in that article relevant to an article about the song?
    • After further thought I realize that yep, that detail is absolutely not relevant. Removed
      • I was also thinking that we didn't need to mention the interview at all but I was wrong -- the interview is the source for the quote so it's reasonable to mention it. But I think we could cut the interviewer's name; the reader gets nothing from it, since the lack of a link tells me Snape is not notable. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
        • You're right. Any chance to cut down on words is a chance I'd take. Her name has been axed Face-smile.svg - Elias

More later, or possibly tomorrow. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 13:32, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

All pending comments above have corresponding replies now. - Elias, 14:23, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
I've responded or struck above; I'll wait to post more till we've settled a couple more of these. Mike Christie ( talk - contribs - library) 23:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
And the replies have their own replies now! The replies are making friends! :D - Elias, 05:18, 30 November 2022 (UTC)


Older nominations

Corp Naomh

Nominator(s): Ceoil ( talk) 10:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Highly ornate and visually appealing (although badly damaged) 9th or 10th century bell shrine that was heavily rebuilt in the 15th century for the better. Originally commissioned as a reliquary container for the hand-bell relic of a, by then, long dead Irish saint (whose identity is now lost), it is now considered a high point of medieval Irish metalwork.

Much appreciation to Sailko for the images –the object is not normally on display for some odd reason, probably conservation as there is plenty scholarship. Part of a series on Insular art; feedback/insight/criticism gratefully welcome. Ceoil ( talk) 10:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments

  • "It was likely was held" - stray word in there
  • "Although recognised as the object as a reliquary" - should this be "Although recognising the object as a reliquary"
  • "The shrine consists of a sheet and cast metal mounds" - should "mould" be singular?
Changed this to "mounts" Ceoil ( talk) 02:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "It is hollow, and made from a bronze casts" - should "cast" be singular?
  • "the back of his heads protrudes" - he has multiple heads?
  • "He wears a full-length and according to Bourke, "wing-like" tunic or cloak" => "He wears a full-length and, according to Bourke, "wing-like" tunic or cloak"
  • "described these designs and their "equal-rayed limbs" as an examples" - design example should presumably be singular?
  • Wikilink Book of Kells
  • "the rider's hands are placed inside their cloaks" - if you are referring to multiple riders then the apostrophe should be after the s
  • "dramatically curls-up at the back" - no need for that hyphen
  • "Two oversized birds perch on the horse's heads" - again, if you are talking about multiple horses then the apostrophe is in the wrong place
  • "Like the rider's cloaks, the bird's wings" - same here (both cases)
  • "In the panel, the animal's hindlegs" - same again
  • That's all I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 19:54, 8 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    Thanks Chris, resolved now. Ceoil ( talk) 19:09, 12 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    • There's been a lot of subsequent work so I think I'll have to do a whole fresh review, but one thing that jumps out at a first glance is "It contains a series of much tinner confronted animals" - is that meant to say "thinner"......? -- ChrisTheDude ( talk) 16:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Gog the Mild

Recusing to review. Placeholder - please ping me once the above has been addressed. Gog the Mild ( talk) 22:20, 9 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

  • "likely belonging to an early Irish saint." Could we change the US English "likely" to the Irish English 'probably'. Similarly with "It was likely held by hereditary keepers".
    Done. Ceoil ( talk) 20:37, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Sections from its original phase include the cross on the reverse and the ornate semi-circular cap on the top". I have reread this several times and have no idea what it means. What does it mean?
    "phase" means build period. I've tweaked a bit to make this clearer, but do need a clearer definition. Hold on. Ceoil ( talk) 21:15, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Some indication in the lead of the size of the object would be helpful.
    Now added. Ceoil ( talk) 20:37, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "after the dissolution of Tristernagh Abbey". Is it known when this happened?
    Clarified.. Ceoil ( talk) 20:37, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Treasury room". Either upper case R or lower case t.
    It's The Treasury according to the NMI website, although the capital "The" looks weird to me. Thinking.
That's ok, cus the MoS suggests that "The word the at the start of a name is uncapitalized, regardless of the institution's own usage".
I ended up removing the claim, remembering that it wasn't there on last visit...the (underfunded) NMI website is notoriously poor and out of date. Ceoil ( talk) 21:00, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

More to follow. Gog the Mild ( talk) 22:24, 12 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thanks for this Gog, given your current limited wiki time. 20:37, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
  • "Co. Westmeath". Abbreviations should be given in full at first mention.
    dabed. Ceoil ( talk) 22:07, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "It was first mentioned and described in Henry Piers, Chorographical Description of the County of Westmeath." Should "Piers" have a possessive?
    Yes. Ceoil ( talk) 22:07, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "it was found to contain a block of wood substituting a saint's hand-bell." I am puzzled; how was it know that a block of wood was meant to represent a hand bell? I mean, it was just a piece of wood.
    The metalwork's shape made it obvious that it was a bell shrine. Presumably the wood was placed so as it wouldn't collapse. Need to review the sources to cite this. Ceoil ( talk) 22:07, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "it is generally accepted that the 15th century additions". This is the first mention of 15th century additions, so they need introducing properly.
  • The quote starting "laced...of brass, and..." is 62 words long. The MoS suggests "Format a long quote (more than about forty words ...) as a block quotation, indented on both sides."
    I think will chop this down and move parts to other sections. Hold on. Ceoil ( talk) 06:06, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "RIA". Abbreviations should be given in full at first mention.
    done. Ceoil ( talk) 22:07, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "the 600-900AD period". En dash, not a hyphen, and a space before AD.
  • "the large central figure of Jesus on the cross. At 23 cm (9.1 in) high, it is around the size of a pocket bible". What is size of the bible. At the moment you have this as the figure of Jesus. If you mean the shrine then "it is" → 'the shrine is'.
    Now linked to pocket gospel book, which gives a clearer indication. Ceoil ( talk) 02:40, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "produced between 600 and 900 AD with iron coated with bronze". Perhaps "with" → 'of'?
  • "It consists of a sheet and cast metal mounds". What are "mounds"? What is the "sheet" made of?
  • Monds = protrusions, the sheets now clarified as bronze. Ceoil ( talk) 02:07, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "are from the 9th or 10th century phase." Consider deleting "phase". If not, what is it/does it mean?
  • "frontside" isn't a word. You probably mean 'front side'.
  • "and is composed from". Possibly "from" → 'of'? I don't think something can be "composed from".
  • Is there such a thing as "full profile"? I understood there to be either profile or full face. Happy to be corrected.
  • "beard and whiskers." What whiskers are there which are not part of the beard?
  • Removed whickers, but the point was the fine detail on such a small figure. Ceoil ( talk) 01:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Raised bands divide the robe". Just a suggestion → 'Raised diagonal bands divide the robe'.
  • "Patrick's Cross". Why the italics?
  • "and designed in the so-called "Kells style" attached to a number of riding figures in earlier or contemporary". 1. I am not sure about "designed", perhaps 'shown'? 2. "attached"? Maybe something like 'also seen in'?
  • "has a long and thick mane, has a downwards looking head and eyes, and long and wide tail." Delete the second "has".
  • "The hind legs are positioned low underneath their body". "their" → 'its'.
  • Optional: "Keeping within this tradition" → 'In keeping with this tradition'.
  • "below the horse's knees rather than above the horse's shoulders." "above the horse's shoulders" → 'above its shoulders.'.
  • "the birds represent the martyrdom of the cleric". Which cleric?
  • The one they are facing, as in the section above. Done. Ceoil ( talk) 01:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "Similar figures in the Book of Kells miniatures ... have short fringes and sometimes a bald crown." But the second illustration from the Book of Kells immediately below shows a rider with a full head of hair which curls up at the back.
  • The titles of works all seem to be in title case except for Johnson, 2005.
Working through these, most done. Ceoil ( talk) 15:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "The bronze figure of Jesus and the silver cross were both added in the 15th century but are now badly damaged, as are large portions of the cross". "as are large portions of the cross" ? This is already covered by "are now badly damaged".
  • "a deeper cut protrusion". To protrude is "To extend from, above or beyond a surface or boundary; to bulge outward; to stick out." So how can one have a deeper protrusion?
    Incision. Ceoil ( talk) 02:07, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • "lining the length of the shire". What's a "shire"?
  • "placing its creation to 1493". Is there a grammar hiccup here?
  • "a fact used to date the additions to the Corp Naomh's main panel. "Perhaps how this was done could be explained, if only in a footnote?
  • "a grid of interlinked cast openwork, equal sized, crosses." I think there should be a comma after "cast" and a hyphen after "equal".
  • "its upper side panels" → 'its upper-side panels'?
  • "which holds the crosses." the crosses? Have these already been introduced?
  • "amongst other contemporary Irish metal relic containers." Does this mean that the Soiscél Molaisse and the Shrine of Miosach are both examples of contemporary Irish metal relic containers, or that they are both examples of contemporary Irish metal relic containers with similar crosses?
    The latter, as indicated by The crosses are similar to those on the...". Ceoil ( talk) 02:32, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • " The plate dates to roughly the same period as the first phase". I think that you need to define and explain somewhere what the "phases" are.
  • "polaire" should use a lang template.
  • "An undated portable leather case". Does "portable" add anything?
  • it idicates that the case was used for carrying from place to place, but guess that's implied so removed. Ceoil ( talk) 01:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Does "sewing" really need linking?
  • "The flap has rows of stitch holes heavier than". How can a hole be heavier than something?
  • Rephrased to indicate that the holes are larger, ie they once contained heavier thread. Ceoil ( talk) 01:57, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

And that's it for a first run through. Gog the Mild ( talk) 10:20, 16 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

  • "It was probably held by hereditary keepers after the dissolution of Tristernagh Abbey" is in the lead, but I struggle to find it in the main article.
  • "The metalwork's shape made it obvious that it was a bell shrine. Presumably the wood was placed so as it wouldn't collapse. Need to review the sources to cite this". Any joy?

Looking really good. IMHO. Gog the Mild ( talk) 22:27, 17 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Thanks. Almost there; there is the block quote to also sort out. Been a very rewarding review! Ceoil ( talk) 01:13, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
I thought you found my reviews intimidating? ;-) Gog the Mild ( talk) 19:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Maybe your not as dastardly as everybody says ;) Ceoil ( talk) 00:10, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
As update, just the block quote and hereditary keepers claim left. Ceoil ( talk) 08:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Gerda's comments and support

Thank you for another fine piece from Irish cultural heritage! I'd make small changes myself but was offline on a plane when I wrote it, and - on vacation - can't check again.

Lead

  • "to enclose a now lost c. 600 to 900 AD hand-bell, likely belonging to an early Irish saint" - can we get the time for the bell to later?
    Reworded this so the dates are not interrupting the flow so much. Ceoil ( talk) 20:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • link saint, or Irish saints if there is something?
    went with List of saints of Ireland which appropriately says “The vast majority of these saints lived during the 4th–10th centuries” Ceoil ( talk) 19:05, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • extra "was" in third para
    Done Ceoil ( talk) 20:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Infobox

  • avoid extra lines for references?
    Removed Ceoil ( talk) 20:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Discovery

  • I recommend to move the bell image altogether from that section. It sandwiches text, displaces the following header, and the text has no bell yet. The pic could go to Function" (or to the bottom after leather case where there's white space)
    moved Ceoil ( talk) 19:05, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Cleric

  • no comma after Bourke, or a comma before "according"
    Done Ceoil ( talk) 20:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Horsemen

Confronted animals

  • with a link to embossed we don't need the longish explanation in brackets
    snipped Ceoil ( talk) 19:05, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

All these are just minor points. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 13:49, 11 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

all great suggestions for improvement, will add tomorrow. ps, have great holiday! Ceoil ( talk) 03:13, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
thank you for action and wishes, - Sunday was another great day, singing with a friend in her church choir in historic Katonah, then hike in Manitoga with other friends, pics to come
support article -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 01:13, 14 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Image review

  • Consistent alt text would be good. The infobox image has alt text in Italian, not ideal.
that’s the file name, but agree. Ceoil ( talk) 19:02, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Done, but with articles on specific artworks or objects, alt is less useful as the image caption would cover it anyway. Ceoil ( talk) 06:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Main images of the corp naomh and other National Museum of Ireland images look to be OK by Irish freedom of panorama law.
  • Book of Kells images: why are these PD in the US? According to Book of Kells, some if not most of the images were published in Ireland early enough to be PD in the US in 1996, but when were these two published?
    Have replaced with PD-old-100-1923, which have used on recommendation on FACs on illuminated manuscripts. Ceoil ( talk) 21:20, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    ( edit conflict) I guess the issue here is whether the book was "published" before 1927. The British Library says there is technically copyright on illuminated manuscripts they own if they have never been published ( [6]). The copyright notice from Trinity at [7] is a bit confusing, stating "Rights statement: Copyright The Board of Trinity College Dublin. Images are available for single-use academic application only. Publication, transmission or display is prohibited without formal written approval of the Library of Trinity College, Dublin." followed by "Copyright status: Public domain" which we might take as saying the images are PD, but Trinity claims the rights for the specific reproductions on their webpage? The bad news is that the images are sourced to exactly this digital reproduction... on the other hand, the existence of a 1951 facsimile edition mentioned at Book of Kells should mean the images from that edition are all PD in the US, as they should have become PD where they were published and then in 1996 in the US. Does image copyright also give you a headache? — Kusma ( talk) 22:03, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Does image copyright also give you a headache. I need a sit down and smelling salts. Will fix the captions for now, but will be a day or two before I get to look at the licensing. But nice to have a friendly and helpful img reviewer, so thanks :) Ceoil ( talk) 22:12, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • While we're here, the captions still need a tiny bit of work. One of the horsemen is actually on (double check "on" versus "in", currently inconsistent in the caption) folio 89 (recto), not 58. You can find the whole book at [8] (your images are from image 513=255 verso and 180=89 recto). — Kusma ( talk) 22:03, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
    Confirmed from the tcd website and done. Ceoil ( talk) 22:47, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • File:Corp Naomh Reverse Margaret Stokes.jpg: doesn't look like a drawing, and the source doesn't mention Margaret Stokes?
yeah, will remove and see if I can get a free one. Ceoil ( talk) 19:02, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
  • Why do we need the catalogue number for the leather case in the caption?
removed. Ceoil ( talk) 19:02, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

I think that's all. — Kusma ( talk) 11:09, 13 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Hi Kusma; getting to the publication of the Book of Kells Images just now, in case you think have forgotten. Ceoil ( talk) 09:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]
Hi @ Ceoil, I think the 1951 publication in Switzerland (even if black and white [9]) should be enough to make the Kells images PD long enough before 1996 for them to be OK. It is debatable whether the copyright tag for the images is OK; perhaps something like {{PD-Art-two|1=PD-100|2=PD-1996}} is better. Thank you for the alt tags and other changes. — Kusma ( talk) 21:58, 25 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Comments from Harry

  • Can we have a plain-text pronunciation guide in the lead?
  • the then-owner of the land on which the You don't need "then" for the same reasons we don't use "the late" (for example)
  • However, when finally opened it was found to contain a block of wood No need for the "however".
  • described as "a certain gentleman, a great zealot of the romish church". You need a reference straight after a direct quote. And should Romish Church be a proper noun?
  • "laced...of brass, and...studded Ellipses should be spaced per MOS:ELLIPSIS
  • The large diagonal cross on the case's front is consists of two overlapping leather straps sewn onto the case. Stray word?

HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:35, 24 November 2022 (UTC) Reply[ reply]

Harry, all done except trying to figure out how to add a plain-text pronunciation. Ceoil ( talk) 12:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)