Draft:Arthur Greenleaf Holmes

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  • Symbol opinion vote.svg Comment: I've added some sections that information could be structured into, but the main thing to do is to look for more news sources that review Holmes. AngusWOOF (barksniff) 19:05, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol opinion vote.svg Comment: That's fine if he's popular as a character. The article title can still be about the character. The issue is that he needs more news coverage. Compare to the Larry Bud Melman and Triumph the Insult Comic Dog which are mostly about fictional personas. AngusWOOF (barksniff) 18:26, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol opinion vote.svg Comment: Just because other stuff exists does not mean that this should as well. Thank you for bringing Twig the Fairy and Tudor Tarts to my attention, I will make sure those get deleted as well. Bkissin (talk) 18:07, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol opinion vote.svg Comment: You need reliable news sources that independent of the subject, not random blogs or company production press releases. AngusWOOF (barksniff) 23:47, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol opinion vote.svg Comment: The descriptions are also promotional in tone: "But another major factor in the rapid rise in his popularity is Boudreau's natural wit. His act is smart and funny, and it appeals to people not just as a refreshing break from political correctness but because he marries his material with an elegant use of language that elevates it beyond that of most poet/comedians." AngusWOOF (barksniff) 23:46, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Symbol opinion vote.svg Comment: Does not meet WP:ENT, not clear how this person is Wikipedia notable. AngusWOOF (barksniff) 01:02, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

My response: Thank you for reviewing my submittal. First, I will make an effort to make it better by finding more verifiable references. Second, "Twig the Fairy" has a Wikipedia page, so "Arthur Greenleaf Holmes" should be allowed to have one as well. They are both fictional characters portrayed by actors at renaissance festivals. To say one is good enough to have their own page but the other is not doesn't seem fair. In my resubmittal, I will include more pertinent info to show that he is a long-time, established actor/comedian, with a wide following. Hopefully that will justify his inclusion in Wikipedia. Pcourteau123 (talk) 17:01, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

My 2nd response: There is a Wikipedia category entitled "Renaissance fair performers" which lists actual performers but also FICTIONAL characters portrayed by actual performers. One of the acts that is listed, and has its own Wikipedia page, is Tudor Tarts. Their page is extremely short, consisting of only 5 lines, and only 3 references. The page I have submitted for "Arthur Greenleaf Holmes" is much more extensive and has SEVEN references. Also, the Tudor Tarts page says they existed "from the 1990s to the early 2000s," so basically a very short time. Gordon Boudreau, the actor who portrays Arthur Greenleaf Holmes, has been performing at renaissance fairs since 1990, and is STILL doing it, meaning he's been doing it for nearly THIRTY years. Since there is a category for renaissance fair performers, "Arthur Greenleaf Holmes" definitely is one of those and deserves to be on the list, with his own page. Also, if a minor act like the Tudor Tarts, who weren't even around very long, and only performed in Texas, and whose page contains so little info, deserve to have their own page, then Arthur Greenleaf Holmes, who has been around for a long time and is STILL around, performing all over the country, definitely deserves to have his own page. Many of the acts listed in the "Renaissance fair performers" category, and who have their own Wikipedia pages, are extremely minor, and not well-known. Arthur Greenleaf Holmes is NOT minor and IS well-known across the country, so if those other acts deserve THEIR own pages, so does Arthur Greenleaf Holmes. Thank you.Pcourteau123 (talk) 17:27, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

My 3rd response, April 27, 2019: Thank you for taking the time to review, and for your response. I took out the part about why he's so popular, which you mentioned in your comment. I have to say rejecting this request is really unfair, though, and I'll tell you why I say that: 1. Arthur Greenleaf Holmes is a very well-known and popular character at many renaissance festivals all over the country, and has been for over 10 years, and continues to be for the foreseeable future. 2. If you compare what I've submitted for his page to some of the trivial fluff that's already been approved and is included in the Renaissance fair performers category, and who have their own official Wikipedia pages, you CAN'T keep him out. Here is some of what I found...Marc Gunn: 1 reference, and all it is is an FAQ article, about his hair color, favorite food, nonsense like that. Known World Players: ZERO references. Three Quarter Ale: ZERO references. Tudor Tarts: 3 references, 1 of which is their facebook page. Twig the Fairy: 3 references, 1 of which is her myspace page and 1 of which is her facebook page. 3. Okay, granted, I can't find an extensive list of references for Arthur Greenleaf Holmes so it's not ideal, but it's at LEAST as solid as any of the other Renaissance fair performer pages that have already been approved, and quite a bit more substantial than many of them. But FOUR of the references I have included ARE reviews of the character or his performance written by outside sources, not by him, so those should be considered acceptable and reliable. FOUR good sources...come on, be reasonable, how many do you NEED? Hardly any of the 21 pages in the renaissance fair performers have even THAT many, and most have LESS. 4. To say those other performers are good enough to get their own page while THIS character is not is just plain unfair. You are holding this submittal to a MUCH higher standard than those submittals were, and that's not fair. The actor is even a published author, having written not one but TWO books. How is that not reliable? How do the Tudor Tarts warrant their own page when this person doesn't? It's not fair. If Wikipedia lets in those trivial acts that no one ever heard of, which is an accurate description of MOST of the 21 pages in that category, then THIS well-known and popular character DEFINITELY deserves his own page as well. It seems like there was a VERY low bar for all of the other acts there, and now all of a sudden the bar has been set REALLY high for this one particular character. That's not fair. 5. Plus, it's the RENAISSANCE FAIR PERFORMER category...Arthur Greenleaf Holmes IS a RENAISSANCE FAIR PERFORMER, so he SHOULD be in that list, with his own page. Keeping him out is just plain wrong, and not fair. Thanks.Pcourteau123 (talk) 15:20, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

My 4th response, May 1, 2019: This is just completely unfair. There is a category dedicated to renaissance fair performers, of which this character is. There are multiple entries in that category who have FEWER references than I have provided for this character (Known World Players: ZERO references. Three Quarter Ale: ZERO references.). Wikipedia has set precedence by granting those trivial, unknown acts their own pages. THIS character is neither trivial nor unknown, and I have provided FOUR reliable sources describing the character and his act, so there is simply no logical way you can those other acts deserve their own page but this one does not. This is just ridiculously unfair.Pcourteau123 (talk) 21:42, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

a further comment, May 2, 2019: whatever standards of acceptance you apply to MY submission must be applied to ALL related submissions, namely in the "renaissance fair performers" category. I supplied FOUR good, reliable sources for Arthur Greenleaf Holmes and you said that's not enough (although I noticed you didn't answer my question as to how many is enough). So based on that, below is a list of all the pages included in the renaissance fair performers category that have 4 or fewer references. You've said you're going to get rid of Twig the Fairy and Tudor Tarts. That's a good start, but here are the others that, according to your own standards, should not have their own pages, and should be deleted:

1) Jolly Rogers, only 1 reference and its their own web site.

2) Flaming Idiots, only 3 references, and all in Texas.

3) poxy boggards, only 2 references.

4) albanach, ZERO references.

5) brobdingnagian bards, only 1 reference, and its their own website.

6) eric Forsberg, only 1 reference, and it's his mother's obituary, saying he's her son.

7) marc gunn, only 1 reference, and its his own website.

8) known world players, ZERO references.

9) steve macdonald, only 3 references, 1 of which is his own website and 1 of which is his own blog.

10) pirate shantyman and his bonnie lass, only 3 references, 1 of which is a youtube video, 1 of which is just a picture of them (maybe, who knows), and 1 of which is their own website.

11) three quarter ale, ZERO references.

If what I submitted for Arthur Greenleaf Holmes doesn't qualify, NONE of the 11 on the above list qualify either.Pcourteau123 (talk) 20:00, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Arthur Greenleaf Holmes is a fictitious sixteenth-century English libertine poet character at various Renaissance faires. He is portrayed by actor and writer Gordon L. Boudreau in the one-man comedy show The Wildly Inappropriate Poetry of Arthur Greenleaf Holmes.

May 7, 2019: Can this page be approved as part of the "WikiProject Biography" category?Pcourteau123 (talk) 22:53, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Arthur Greenleaf Holmes
Created byGordon L. Boudreau
Information
OccupationPoet

Fictional background[edit]

Arthur’s backstory is varying. In the earliest versions, he hails from Dorchester, England, but later biographies cite the imaginary village of Stoke-on-Trent-by-Darcy-upon-Avon-by-the-Sea, and the most recent ones list another fictional town, Sherman-upon-Hemsley (a humorous allusion to Sherman Hemsley, who played George Jefferson on The Jeffersons).

Arthur also seems to re-emerge in different poetic epochs. His first collection of poetry, A Gentleman’s Treasury Of Bedtime Verses (To Sodomize By) places Arthur in the mid-1500’s, but in The Vulgaria he reappears in early nineteenth-century Georgian era London.

Arthur has a sister, Babette, and a younger, tragic brother, Edmund.

Character[edit]

Conception and design[edit]

Portrayal[edit]

Personality[edit]

Actor[edit]

Gordon L. Boudreau was born in Syracuse, NY, one of seven children and son of an English professor.

Boudreau has made his living as an actor/writer/author/street performer/comedian since 1990. As a member of Theater In The Ground he appeared at outdoor festivals around the country presenting comedic adaptations of such classics as Beowulf, Dante’s Inferno, and Gilgamesh, all performed in a pit of mud. He lived in New York for ten years, performing standup comedy at The Comic Strip, Caroline’s Comedy Club, and other venues. He currently lives in Portland with his wife and children.

Notable poems[edit]

His very first poem was “I Bought a Cheese and Thought of You” although, in performance, Boudreau claims “Mother, Will My Stones Drop?” was the first. Some of Arthur’s favorite poems are “I Built My Love a Menstrual Hut,” “Ode to an Extremely Provocative Knothole,” “A Hearthside Conversation,” “Epithalameum (or, The Wedding Poem),” “Lord Wentworth, My Son,” “Clap For My Love,” “The Wee Irish Man,” and “Tavern-Floor Tina.”

Reception[edit]

Boudreau started performing at renaissance festivals as a street performer, playing a character named Scratch the Beggar. He later created the character of Arthur Greenleaf Holmes, a character which has since become extremely popular at numerous renaissance festivals in a relatively short time. Much of the popularity of Arthur Greenleaf Holmes is due to the uniqueness of a poet reading aloud his politically incorrect poems, which largely focus on sex and bodily functions. Boudreau draws poetic elements from Keats, Wordsworth, and Frost, and combines them with comedy styles inspired by Peter Sellers and Warner Bros. cartoons.[1]

Many renaissance festival performers have fans, but few ever attain the sincere adulation that the character of Arthur Greenleaf Holmes has earned in every place he has performed, even though, by his own admission, his humor is not for everyone.[2][3]

Once Boudreau had become an established renaissance festival performer, he expanded his repertoire by becoming a corporate entertainment consultant for Hampton Inns, travelling to corporate locations and reciting Hampton Inn-specific poetry.[4]

Media[edit]

Books[edit]

  • A Gentleman’s Treasury of Bedtime Verses (To Sodomize By) (2015)<ref>{{cite news|title=A Gentleman's Treasurey of Bedtime Verses (To Sodomize By)
  • The Vulgaria (2018)

Albums[edit]

  • The Life And Rhymes Of Arthur Greenleaf Holmes (2010)
  • Songs From A Poisoned Well: Arthur Greenleaf Holmes Live at Cripplegate Tavern (2011)

External links[edit]

References[edit]

  1. ^ "Arthur Greenleaf Holmes Wildly Inappropriate Poetry". Skaldic Media. March 1, 2017.
  2. ^ Schrier, Elizabeth (June 1, 2018). "The Wildly Inappropriate Poetry of Arthur Greenleaf Holmes: A Review". geekisphere.
  3. ^ Gavis, Karen (April 17, 2018). "Not All Family Friendly: 3 Raunchy Acts To See at Scarborough Renaissance Festival". Dallas Observer.
  4. ^ Mills, James (August 11, 2019). "The Ballad of Mount Gitchigumi – The Joy Trip Project". Joy Trip Project.

Arthur Greenleaf Holmes[edit]